The Colorado Rockies announced today that the club has acquired right-handed pitcher Guillermo Moscoso and left-handed pitcher Josh Outman from Oakland in exchange for outfielder Seth Smith. Both Moscoso and Outman will be added to Colorado’s 40-man roster.
Moscoso, 28, set career-highs in nearly every category for Oakland in 2011, posting an 8-10 record with a 3.38 ERA (128.0 ip, 48 er), 38 walks and 74 strikeouts in 23 games/21 starts. The native of Maracay, Venezuela, Moscoso also made nine appearances/eight starts at Triple-A Sacramento in 2011, going 3-3 with a 3.88 ERA (46.1 ip, 20 er), 16 walks and 52 strikeouts. Moscoso held opponents to a .212 (102-for-482) batting average in his 23 games for the A’s in 2011. Moscoso also made 11 Major League appearances for Texas in 2009-10 and owns a career ERA of 3.47 (142.2 ip, 55 er) in 34 Major League games.
Moscoso was originally signed by Detroit as an un-drafted free agent out of Venezuela in 2002, he was acquired by Texas in December, 2008 for catcher Gerald Laird, and by Oakland from Texas in January, 2011 for right-handed pitcher Ryan Kelly. The Rockies are his fourth Major League franchise.
Outman, 27, has appeared in 33 Major League games/25 starts since 2008 with Oakland, and owns an 8-8 career record with a 3.75 ERA (151.1 ip, 63 er), 56 walks and 107 strikeouts. In 2011, the 6-foot-1 left-hander went 3-5 with a 3.70 ERA (58.1 ip, 24 er), 23 walks and 35 strikeouts in 13 games/nine starts in the Major Leagues for the A’s. He spent the remainder of the 2011 campaign at Triple-A Sacramento, where he went 8-3 with a 3.91 ERA (78.1 ip, 34 er), 47 walks and 72 strikeouts over 17 starts. Opponents have batted just .258 (149-for-578) against Outman in his 33 career Major League games.
Outman was originally selected in the 10th round of the 2005 First-Year Player Draft by Philadelphia out of Central Missouri State University. He was acquired by Oakland in June, 2005 for Joe Blanton. Outman made his Major League debut with Oakland in 2008, at age 23.
Smith, 29, was originally selected by Colorado in the second round of the 2004 First-Year Player draft out of the University of Mississippi. The left-handed batter is a .275 (354-for-1285) career hitter with 78 doubles, 19 triples, 51 home runs and 181 RBI in 487 Major League games. 2011 was Smith’s third-consecutive season to spend the entire campaign in the Majors with Colorado, and he batted .284 (135-for-476) with 32 doubles, 9 triples, 15 home runs and 59 RBI. He has spent the majority of his career in both left field and right field for the Rockies.
The Rockies currently have a full 40-man roster.
(thanks Ghoste for getting this post started)
Seems from the stats (and the lefty’s outstanding name) the deal makes some sense. Bring in some more depth at major league level and competition in spring training. Also gives Dan ability to flip one or more for a 2B option. Smith had no place in Rox OF and had his chance to show he could hit lefties. Besides, it’s more money saved to pay what Renck now says is a veteran (un-Millwood) starter about to sign for more depth. You can argue that there are a large number of non-household names on current roster but the truth is that you can’t have too much pitching, right?
Wow, I was about to say I wasn’t sorry they signed Smith to a year deal, but had to wonder what/who the Braves wanted in another outfielder plus Smith in order for us to get Prado… and then saw this. Well, load ‘em up and maybe somebody will rise to the top…O’Dowd was quoted as saying these guys will join the “raging competition” for rotation spots. Maybe we’ll even get lucky and will find TOO MANY candidates :0 (Well, a girl can dream.)
Morosco has a decent era (albeit in a pitchers park) and his K to BB is 2 to 1. He also has an outstanding WHIP of 1.094. Outman (great name for a pitcher) is still working his way back from Tommy John which wiped out his 2010. Wanted more for Smith but this just adds to the number of #3, #4, #5 starters we have.
We now officially lead the league in CF’s and 3 thru 5 SP. I hope Deep Purple is right and some of these guys step up and perform. And I agree, you can never have too much pitching, unless it all lacks the ability to dominate.
Wish you well Seth, you gave us some great late inning moments.
Here’s hoping Blackmon/Wheeler/Hoffman can step up and become more valuable than Seth was.
I’m not sure the Rox are willing to spend $4.75 million for 2012 on Prado. It’s tempting but I don’t think Braves are ready to pull the trigger on any deal for him as long as Chipper keeps getting older (check your timepieces).
agree Deep Purple….Prado for 1 year and Braves thinking they needed multiple players for a trade?
Will be interested to hear the show on KOA tonight and see if anything is discussed. Suppose it is time for all position players to step up and prove they belong. I know everyone wants that #3 starter but let’s face it….you aren’t going to get valuable players without some heavy trading material…
Go Rox and come on Scottsdale!
Never too much pitching. Ok I’ll go along with that BUT this is pure crap. Quantity instead of quality. They’ve gone on the cheap and have switched from stock piling 2nd baseman, that they have since decided can’t play 2nd and so they try them elsewhere, to stock piling pitchers that probably wouldn’t even make the rotation on other clubs.
Sorry to sound negative and I hope I’m sooooooo wrong.
I never heard of either of these guys. Sounds like the Rockies have 6 or 7 back of the rotation guys. Maybe package 2 or 3 of them for a solid number 2?
We as Rockies fans keep going back to Prado. As of the last week the Braves have moved on. Just to recap. They just recently said that they expect Jurjjens and Prado will start the season as Braves.
It’s a bit overkill on pitching depth now, but I think DOD is collecting the poker chips to use in a trade for a second baseman.
Rockies are officially confident in the humidor, not only no longer avoiding fly ball pitchers but embracing them. After watching ground ball pitcher Aaron Cook get singled and gapped to death maybe the change in strategy isn’t that bad. Go Humidor!
I wonder how many mediocre starters we can get for Tulo or Cargo. 16? Space out their ages and we can field all the minor league levels at once and have room to cut a few too!
This trade makes me sad for two reasons – i really didn’t want to lose Seth, but I knew we might (he was my boy’s favorite player) and secondly, if we are going to lose him i’d at least want someone more significant back for him!
The new guys’ numbers look pretty good. It looks like we might be able to find a starter among these two guys, and some additional pitching depth, while freeing up enought money to enable the team to sign another veteran starter (Jeff Francis?). It all adds up to more #4 or #5 pitchers, and, as DOD said, a raging competition.
This deal might work out, particularly if one or two of the pitchers get flipped for a 2B or another useful player. But this morning I was wondering if we could pull off a Phil Hughes for Seth Smith deal. That would have been a more exciting deal.
The Sky Sox should have the best rotation that they have had in years. Those of you who live in CS should appreciate that.
Julian, here’s whats going to happen. We have 9 guys competing for the 3-5 spots (assuming Chacin and Pomeranz are locks at 1 and 2).
3 of them win a spot. The other 6+ are either demoted (if options remain) or cut at the end of spring and we lose them for nothing.
I have no faith that O’Dowd is able to find takers for the surplus. We’ll end up getting nothing. Its going to play out that someone (Smith, Street, or Iannetta) will have ended up being traded for what turns out to be someone who never plays a meaningful game for the team.
There just aren’t enough roster spots for these guys.
Most all of them have options. They will not be cut for nothing.
I love it. To compete in the N.L. West, you have to have tons of pitching. In the past, it seemed as if many other of the N.L. West teams would bring up no-name pitchers from their farm systems to step in when they had injuries and/or made trades, which created vacancies in their rotation. However, it also seemed as if the Rockies lacked that depth in talent thus would have to rely on players such as Reynolds, or Mortenson, etc. to fill in. Now they have plenty of quality depth to fall back on if needed. They’re only two “holes” they have to fill are 3b and 2b, which may be fine temporarily with Blake and Nelson until Arenando and Rutledge come along. And who knows, maybe Nelson and/or LeMahieu can grab ahold of that 2b job for the next five years.
I guess it all depends on how you define quality depth. Sorry I sound so skeptical. I am. I also happen to agree with Prog. I’m also losing faith.
NOTHING within the coaching/player develpoment team, over the last few years, have proven they have the ability to turn pitchers around or help them get better.
Well I guess I am excited to see how the following pitchers pan out:
Pomeranz (former 1st rd pick)
White (former 1st rd pick)
Nicasio (extremely promising start last year before injury)
Bettis (bright future in rotation or possible closer)
Chatwood (second rd pick who stood his ground as a 21 yr old in the bigs)
Moscoso (3.38 ERA in 128 innings pitched last year- 21 starts…very encouraging)
Outman (career 3.75 ERA…also very encouraging. Can pitch in rotation or out of bullpen)
Slowly and Hammel (both decent #5 starters)
Friedrich (former 1st rd pick who still has time to turn the corner)
That’s ten guys that either have top-of-the-rotation stuff (Pomeranz, White, Bettis, Nicasio), middle rotation guys (Chatwood, Moscoso, Outman, Friedrich), and back-end guys who can give you double-diget wins (Hammel and Slowey) to fall in behind Chacin. To me, that appears to be decent depth for the next few years.
Ah, hope springs eternal and Spring Training is only a month away! Amazing how we can block out a bad previous season (for the most part) and move on with youthful (I’m 57) anticipation for the coming year. That said, regarding all these pitchers and other youngsters I optimistically remind myselt that almost all good players were a no-name at one time. Besides, it can’t get any worse than last year! :<)
I do take great pleasure in knowing that CarGo came from Oakland, so they have been known to give us major diamonds – then again, Smith isn’t the same as Holliday, so my expectations are low…
Wouldn’t that be amazing that when DLR comes back, yet another pitching candidate falls out of the rotation? DOD keeps saying the ones that miss out on getting into the rotation can pitch out of the pen. Really? Seems like our pen is pretty full: Bettancourt, Brothers, Belisle, Lindstrom, M Reynolds, and possibly Escalona. Esmil Rogers likely to go into the pen, just not good enough to get into the rotation. So all the pitching pieces seem to be either rotation or in the minors.
How will all these guys get enough work in Spring Training? They will likely have to weed out a few fairly early and send to minor league camp.
I mentioned my optimism above, but I guess I am much more pessimistic than many of you that DLR will return smoothly in May and assume the No. 1 effectively. Some do and some don’t, so it is pretty much a toss-up to me.
I believe that DLR will come back and be slotted in the 2 or 3 and have a yo yo series of starts for a couple of months until about late August and then he will be the DLR or the old. That’s my hopes.
I just posted an update in the Hot Stove section that the veteran they are talking about picking up is Jamie Moyer…
Those commenting on DLR – keep this in mind:
It normally takes about 12 months to come back to competitive pitching after TJ surgery. Then….it typically takes the pitcher about 3 months to re-discover his command. Ultimately, many pitchers that have TJ surgery come back better than ever – but not immediately.
So DLR went out in early May last year (I think?)? Based on the timetable listed above – he probably pitches in Tulsa and/or CS (or somewhere in the Minor League system) from mid-May through mid-July. The earliest we can expect to see him in Denver, pitching somewhat effectively, is late July (coincidently right around the trade deadline). he probably won’t be really good until late August.
I like this deal…..and had mentioned in previous posts that the A’s could be a good partner. Outman is a lefty, and should be fully recovered from TJ (the way DLR will be in 2013). Moscoso is also servicable. It’s clear to me that DOD is focusing on guys that don’t walk batters – and is also allowing for the possibility of guys like Pomeranz, White, and Chatwood to start the year in the Minors if necessary.
I think Bob in WV makes a great point about all these guys getting work in in ST.Certainly some must go to minor league camp early on,or some more moves are in the works to thin the candidates. Also think any hope of DLR being a factor ANY time next season is very wistful thinking.I think this stockpiling of fairly young arms speaks to the team really looking to 2013 not this season.By then the weeding out will be clear-what we have in the comeback kids[Nicascio,DLR] will be clear,and the long range situation at 1st,2nd,3rd should become clearer.
perhaps this is an answer to our poor drafting when it comes to pitching and we are bringing in several that we would have like to have drafted – so, beefing up our farm system through trades and pick-ups…then next year we can say we have a healthy farm system?
I am on the pro side of this deal. I did like Smith, but I think we saw as good as he was going to be, plus we signed Cuddyer, so the need for him just isn’t there.
At best we got 2 guys who could contribute substantially to our rotation. At worst, we have some good young arms to swap to fill a hole elsewhere. I’m ok with this. DOD appears to have a plan, and I’d prefer that he goes all with it than half assed.
I’m not suprised by the return what else are you expecting? We aren’t trading a guy who plays solid defense or a guy who will light up the stat sheet. The reaction seems to be another “I can’t believe we traded such a great guy” type. He was a great pinch hitter and seemed to be clutch late in games. But his range was very poor and we have better options to start and fill in the outfield. We have seen what he offers but I am very disappointed he was sent to such a dreadful park. For the guys we got back you can’t down play pitching depth and the guys may not be number 1′s but we aren’t going to get back prime talent for a guy who is 29 and hasn’t proved to be anything special.
I see your point and agree for the most part. Smith was a good player for us who had some very big moments and was a part of some special teams, so I wouldn’t go as far as to say he hasn’t proved anything during his time in the bigs. But I agree with your overall point.
Yeah I definitely agree he was a fun guy with some awesome moments
The way some of you talk, it’s amazing the Rockies ever recorded an out with Smith in the OF. Come on, his defense was not that bad. And who is going to replace his offense or clutch hitting?
Only time will tell, but the impression I get is that the Rockies were determined to move him, and this was the best they could get. I would have preferred we trade our manager instead.
Best of luck to you Seth. I hope you get to play everyday in Oakland. Thanks for the big hits.
I thought Tracy Ringolsby made some great points. Two really rang true 1) young guys with long term control 2) bring in 10 and hope to get 2 or 3 that work out
Really Smith is a 4th OF so I think Rox did okay. His numbers suggest a .270 avg in Oak. and 15 HRs with 65 RBIs. Good deal by DOD for once.
The sad thing lost in this deal is his spot vanished on this team not only with the signing of the almost equal Cuddyer but also the acquisition of Colvin who still has huge upside and who is 3 years younger than Smith. I think we should expect about the same avg from Cuddyer but who knows how well he and Colvin will hit in Coors. Add those 2 to an outfield with Cargo, Fowler, and Chuck Nasty and there will be a pretty big crowd in the outfield this year
Billy Beane knows that the Oakland Mausoleum spits out pitchers with superficially attractive stats even thought they are, in reality, crap.
Remember that Greg Smith acquisition? Part of the Holliday-Street-CarGo deal? Greg Smith had a 4.16 ERA over 190 innings in 2008 with Oakland. Big problem: his xFIP numbers (see Fangraphs) showed that when you normalized his stats he was really a 5.23 ERA pitcher. Which was pretty much what he proved to be with us.
Outman = Greg Smith Jr. ERA last year: 3.77. xFIP: 4.77
Moscoso: ERA last year: ERA last year: 3.38. xFIP: 5.03.
These are basically two more replacement level pitchers.
What is Seth Smith? A platoon corner outfielder (and don’t tell me he never got a chance to hit lefties; he never hit them in the minors when given a chance) whose defense slid into the sub-average range last year. But guess what? He’s not a replacement level outfielder. He’s close to league average. If you play him against righties only and find a decent RH platoon partner, you actually could be a bit above average with him.
And that’s better than replacement level. Really, Clay Mortensen (who came from, uhh, the A’s — O’Dowd has a sterling record of success in dealing for former A’s pitchers, doesn’t he?) is probably competitive with these guys.
When Smith signed to avoid arbitration yesterday, I posted “now I hope they don’t go ahead and deal him for nothing.” I guess technically they didn’t since they dealt him for Nothing X 2. Which I think still equals nothing.
Let me ask this question: what was the harm in keeping Smith as your LH pinch hitter and letting Giambi walk? Smith at least can still move a bit, and can fill in in the outfield if (as we should expect) the decrepit Helton breaks down again and Cuddyer is forced to 1B. Is it Giambi’s winning clubhouse presence that presided over consecutive September collapses the likes of which I’ve never seen before?
Yeah, where would we be without that kind of leadership?
Dealing Smith isn’t such a big deal in the abstract, but like all of O’Dowd’s moves this winter, in the aggregate it is just plain weird, almost as if he’s just not interested in winning but rather in punishing players he thinks let him down.
THANK YOU … well said. I listened to 850 and MLBtv. Interesting comments. I was wondering if you can purchase that special Rockies blend of tea or coffee they were drinking at 850.
MLBtv certainly made lots of comments ag about the seemingly continuous sell off of pitchers. Now they are down to selling off guys that don’t even have big contracts and they can’t figure out why.
Yeah, thanks from me too Ag! LIKE!
You (and Prog) said it perfectly. I knew DOD was going to give Smith away when the Prado deal didn’t happen. Gotta dump our extra hitters because – you know – no one ever gets hurt, and Helton will play forever, and the Rox never need a pinch hitter. What’s going to happen when Dex gets sent down to AAA for his annual punishment for striking out too much? I guess we will see EYJ in LF again.
Sorry for the sarcasm, but this team needs offense not 100 grade-B or B- pitchers.
I don’t think I’m smart enough to know if this was a good trade or not, but I do know my Rockies’ Calendar that was a Christmas present is looking pretty stupid right now. There are 5 players on 5 of the 12 months that are no longer with the team (Huston Street leads off January). It will be interesting to be looking at Seth Smith’s picture in November of 2012 and seeing if the trade was worth it.
Q. Moscoso threw 128 innings of 3.30 ERA ball. That looks impressive. In fact, by ERA alone he’d look to be the Rockies best or second best (Chacin) starter going into 2012. Hes cost controlled for 5 years. So why did he garner only platoon outfielder Seth Smith in a trade? And even that trade required a throw-in of Outman, who also seemed pretty effective by ERA alone?
A. Because every team is stat savvy now. And every team knows Moscoso’s 2011 was 90 percent smoke and mirrors, “luck” in other words. So nobody was willing to give up anything more valuable than Seth Smith for him. To think Moscoso will be a solid starter in 2012 requires a huge leap of faith and a rejection of everything we know about pitching stats, particularly BABIP and HR per fly ball rates. Oh, and did I mention that he’s an extreme fly ball pitcher? That should make him less valuable to the Rockies than to the A’s. But I guess O’Dowd has a theory. I’d like to hear it some day.
Ever see art that looks like someone was blindly splattering paint across the walls? Maybe thats the strategy. As you add more and more color it clearly shows more and more effort. And effort is all that counts. Results are for cities like Philly, Boston and NY to worry about.
Ag, after this trade was announced, one of the “insiders” was questioning exactly what you bring up … how his fly balls might play out in Coors. They were not necessarily being positive about it either.
I’m a bit more subdued today than yesterday so I guess I will just wait and see how it all plays out. Like Tracy Ringolsby mentioned last night. Bring in 10 and hope to get 2 or 3 that really work out.
I heard in the tweet world from some guy who uses fancy sabermetrics and says Moncosco wasn’t really any better than say a Wade Davis. He used xFIP stat whatever that means and said there were 131 pitchers who threw at least the same amount of innings as Moncosco and he came in like 130th of 131. If the this stat is an accurate forecaster, it looks like another Greg Smith coming over that will be thrown into the scrap heap. As a Rockies fan, hope that’s not the case.
Personally, I’m hoping Tyler Chatwood gets one of the spots cuz he throws with good velocity and keeps the ball on the ground more often than not.
One angle on this trade: I think it may be the final move to closing the loop on the post World Series Rockies era.
I think 2008-2011 will stand alone as its own block in Rockies history.
2012 is a fresh start.
Here are some moves that O’Dowd made to replace players who helped bring a NLC to Colorado.
The failures:
2008 -Replace Matsui/Carroll with Jayson Nix.
2009 -Replace Torrealba with Chris Iannetta/Olivo
2010 -Replace Atkins with Ian Stewart
2011 -Replace Hawpe with Seth Smith
The successes:
2009 -Replace Holliday with Carlos Gonzalez
The ???:
2009 Replace Taveras with Spilborghs (eventually with Fowler)
For pitching obviously this rotation, whoever comes out of it will almost be entirely different than the previous few seasons.
I think its clear that aside from 1 move (in which a trade was all but forced by the player) that 2008-2011, even with the playoff appearance in 09, has been a failure and that 2012 O’Dowd has finally purged his regrets and tilled the field over for fresh plantings. Whether he stays long enough to see these new seedlings mature is another story,
I have to assume that DOD shopped Seth Smith far and wide, and this was the best that he could get for Smith. We talked about signing Millwood as a fifth starter. Millwood also is a fly ball pitcher. Based on the statistics, is Moscoso worse than Millwood? Is he worse than Millwood or Francis on a cost-adjusted basis (isn’t he about two million dollars less expensive?). At the moment, is he further along as a major league pitcher than White, Chatwood, Gardner, Friedrich, and Scahill, and therefore is he more likely to be ready to be a fifth starter (to join all of the other fifth starters, such as Hammel and Slowey) in April? If he gets bumped as a starter by one of the other named pitchers, or by DLR, Nicasio, Bettis, or Cabrera, would he have any value as a long reliever or a regular reliever, or in a trade? So, it might not be a great trade, but it might help the team short term.
How many of you, during the winter, wish you owned an MLB team? Especially one like the Rockies where the attendance is high and the fans are basically BEGGING you, with ticket sales, to put people on the field they can be proud of. I will let time tell if the pick-ups this season are a good thing or not, but last year brought us Wiggy, Lopez and Jose Morales…look what happened to each of them over the season (Morales was injury, but he wasn’t exactly killing it before getting hurt)…so, if i were an owner i’d much rather use every penny i had to put an amazing team on the field and that might cut into my bottom line, but in the long run attendance and jersey sales, etc. would increase…i know – very naive / idealistic view, but oh how i wish i could by the Rockies!!!
Count me among that group Jared, it obviously isn’t actually the case but it sure feels like I spent more time thinking of ways to improve the team than the front office does.
I’ve looked at video of Moscoso and Outman. Moscoso looks like he tops out at 92 mph and seems to throw a pretty good changeup and mixes in a averageish curveball. The thing I like about him is that he seems to have good control of his fastball and changeup (at least from what I’ve seen). Every curveball I saw him throw ended up in the dirt but it had good break to it.
Outman throws in the mid 90′s and seems to have a pretty darn good slider. Hopefully he is now fully recovered from Tommy John Surgery.
I also took some time to look up some video of DJ LeMahieu. I was surprised to see how big this kid is! 6’4″ is pretty big for a 2B. My first impression was he has a nice short swing and shows some good pop. I’m predicting that he wins the starting job at 2B out of Spring Training.
When we first signed Cuddyer I wrote on another post that now we won’t get nearly as good a deal for Smith as we could have if we traded him before signing Cuddyer. Although I do kinda like this trade I think we could have gotten a little more for Smith but that’s just me.
Everyone is talking about Moscoso – but Outman is the one to watch in this deal. He has a higher ceiling. He should be fully recovered from his TJ surgery, and should have enough post – TJ innings to be getting his command back. I like him for the rotation much more than Moscoso.
My friend pitched with Moscoso while they were in the Rangers organization and he had a lot of good things to say about him. He can touch 93-94 and sits around 90-92. He said he is a little up in the zone with his fastball, but he has good command of his offspeed pitches and gets hitters out. I like this trade. Outman is going to be a good…he is nasty. Very sneaky fast with a good breaking ball.
Jaredean,
You can’t be online all the time to monitor these jerks. Is there a way some of us can help you delete this junk?
Thanks Trip – i went to dinner and the movies tonight after a huge meeting at work, so i didn’t have a chance to check the site until now and BAM massive amounts of spam! I just activated the plug-in to help with it (i knew it cost monthly, but thought it was more than it was – i really should have done it sooner – i thought it was $50 a month, but it is less)…hopefully I won’t have anymore issues (at least if there is spam i liked the ones that were creative the best…these new ones are just lame)…
There should be a plugin for word press that will filter out spam. Ill look into it and let you know what I find.
There is, it just costs monthly and I’ve been waiting to afford it. I just got a donation that will totally help so I’ll set it up tomorrow. Man I am so thankful for the donations, they really help.
Here is what I think you may need to install. Plugin called Akismet.
http://codex.wordpress.org/Combating_Comment_Spam
Thanks Matt. That is the one I was looking at. Just waiting for my paycheck to pay for the license but I got a donation to cover it for a few months, so I’ll be setting it up. It got really bad tonight, huh! I have been putting it off since building the site thinking I could wait because it hasn’t been too bat but I got hit hard so I can’t wait anymore.