What is better than filling a long needed spot at second? Filling it with someone who not only had an excellent line last season, going 299/.358/.423 in 445 plate appearances with Red Sox, but also filling it with someone who is liked by Tulo and great friends of CarGo (who tweeted “Happy for the arrival of my friend Marco Scutaro to @Rockies ¡Welcome bro!” shortly after the trade became official). The Rockies picked up Marco Scutaro today in a trade that will send Clayton Mortensen to the Red Sox. Troy Renck was the first to break the news, via Twitter, and he has been slowly giving details of the trade.
The Red Sox will get a pitcher they feel will fill a spot in their starting rotation, while the Rockies will pick up a player that has played short for the past 3 seasons and has proven his worth with his bat.
Stay tuned for more as you type your thoughts…
I’m not much off an AL fan, but a friend of mine in Vermont who LOVES the Sox said he loved Scutaro. Why, I asked? “He’s a gamer,” said my friend. Gamers trump stats and age, I say. We might have ourselves a solid second baseman at last, at least for a year or two. Mike Lansing he’s not.
Our offense should be great, but we are investing a lot of money in old players but will the pitching come around in time to make these old guys worthwhile? And we have at least 4 young 2bs that either need to play or be traded. Is there a plan for Nelson or LeMahieu? I figure EY is as good as gone. Herrera is no longer needed either since Scutaro can play short.
“Gamers trump stats and age”
i couldn’t agree more…it sounds like the Cuddy mentality – just play hard, the best way you know possible, every play/at bat/run and good things will happen…
I gotta say, i’m VERY excited for this pick-up…wow, can’t wait to talk to my Red Sox friend about his thoughts cause i know he liked Scutaro.
I think Scutaro can at least do for the Rox what Freddy Sanchez has done for the Giants. And maybe stay healthy too.
I just keep thinking of how deep our line-up will be…if we get Arenado at third and Todd is healthy, wow! We are freaking deep!
I vote this as the best offseason pickup thus far!!! Sweet!!!
If we had Ubaldo and a healthy DLR I would say this should be the best team we ever had. Alas we have 2 rookies taking their place.
Alright, I am excited.
Wonder whats going on at Fan Fest today.
So now it becomes very clear why the Rockies dumped the Slowey salary – almost $3m – as it was necessary to make this deal. Totally support (and I often don’t) DanO on this one – great trade! Really surprized the Red Sox didn’t get a better arm than Mortensen.
Perfect fit for the two hole in the everyday lineup and Scutaro can hold down the second sack until Rutledge is ready. FANTASTIC!!!
Great move by the Rockies! And I don’t think Dealin’ Dan is done… he’s got some ‘house money’; a surplus of utility guys who can play some (EY, Herrera, Nelson and the new guys) and plenty of extra arms. I think we’re going to like the finished product. I know I like having Scutaro and Cuddy in purple.
Bonus points to DOD for only having to part with Mortensen to get a guy like Scutaro.
Jared and friends… thanks for doing this site… I’ve been a quiet observer since the days of ITR, I really enjoy the posters observations. So much more baseball knowledge here than you see from the posters at the Post site.
Great job by Troy Renck for getting the story. I think he’s the best beat writer in town. Add Cowboy’s work and we might have some of the best baseball writers right here!
Keep up the good work, guys and when I can spare some financial assistance, I’ll be happy to help out.
For what it’s worth, I root for the Rockies, White Sox, Cubs and Pirates (in that order). Big baseball fan for 50 years. Counting the days until ST!
Thank’s IggyRox (a tip of the hat to Iggy Pop?) – i love hearing from you guys that the site is what you’d hoped it would be…a lot of work went into it and is still going into future updates and hearing that people are happy with it makes the effort completely worth it…
I agree on Troy Renck and i’ve contacted him for info on a story i’m working on and he responded right away and gave me info i needed – very cool of him sharing like that…love it…
Whenever you can spare the financial assistand i’ll be happy to use it
Just sent a small donation via PayPal through my business account. Hope I can do more in the coming months. Thanks again for the site!
Iggy, you rock! Thank you so much for that…i appreciate it a ton!
Great trade, especially since we only gave up a pitcher who did not really figure in our plans anyway. The Monforts must have given the green light to go over budget so kudos to them and to DOD for pulling this one off. This could be a fantastic lineup and I can’t wait until ST.
A very good lineup just got much better. Now it’s up to the pitchers to keep them in the game.
Wayne, I think you might be wrong, as I only have the Rockies in the mid $80ms and the budget if the same as last year was to be about $90m. In short I think there is another $5m laying around for a starting pitcher, but they might not use it until the trade deadline.
Braves would have given the Red Sox a real starting pitcher prospect, as they have a dozen or more! Red Sox fans are going crazy and I have to admit it – I LOVE IT!!!
Yeah, there has been a ton of talk outta boston and it is almost unanimous – they all love scutaro and all of them are wondering what in the world the team is doing (with most of them saying, “clayton who?”) hoping they do indeed get Oswalt since they have nobody now at SS…
Rich M, you may be right about the total $ amount. I guess I should have said kudos to the Monforts for agreeing to pay the entire $6 million.
Yes, a tip of the hat to Iggy Pop. Also a tip to Jim (Iggy) Ignatowski, the Christopher Lloyd character from Taxi. Got a little of both of them in my makeup! lol
wow, that’s quite the dichotomy of Iggy’s – one has a lust for life, the other’s life is laid back man…
Wait we just lost two starting pitchers in the last two days, oh that’s right we still have an extra ten or so of those – DanO you are Dealin’ once again!
I don’t know about you guys but I like all the pick ups for the Rockies especially this one!! Just wish April would come, can’t wait to see what the Rockies can do! Go Rockies!
Lineup: (guessing)
1. Fowler, CF
2. Scutaro, 2B
3. C.Gonzalez, LF
4. Tulowitzki, SS
5. Helton, 1B
6. Cuddyer, LF
7. Hernandez, C
8. Blake, 3B
9. Pitcher
Now that’s a solid lineup!
Eric W.pretty sure Helton will bat 6th behind Cuddyer,but either way a line up to be excited about.Rotation trmains a work in progress.
Gary, I’m with Eric W. But only because of the SRLRLR thing. Otherwise I would agree with you.
Damn it – I have to go edit my Roster in the “Roster” thread again!
As noted early in the thread – EYJr’s days are numbered. You have to figure the same thing for either Nelson or Herrera as well.
ok, i just had the best idea – wouldn’t it be classic if we now went and picked up Oswalt out from under the Red Sox? boy, that would be excellent – we take Scutaro off their hands so they can afford Oswalt, and then we take Oswalt so they got nobody!
No, just a product of the 60′s and 70′s! (there are other influences, thank goodness!)
more details:
“He owns a .992 career fielding percentage in 324 games at second base. His .992 mark at second is the second-highest for any active Major League player with at least 300 games played at second base.”
That will fit in very nicely with the man to his right…
Fantastic move.
Cisco, I know you called me out for being endlessly negative after the Slowey deal. I had speculated that if this was all about clearing salary space to go get Scutaro I’d be happy after all with all the recent wheeling and dealing.
As some of you have mentioned, this promises to be a really good offensive (and defensive) team. I also like the bullpen. Starting pitching is, of course, a huge, huge question mark. But at least now some kind of plan is evident. And thank goodness that 2B horror show is finally over.
You’re right about the SP…….but at least (even with the Slowey and Mortenson trades), there are lots of options (many with options):
Chacin
Outman (my sleeper)
Pomeranz
Hammel
Nicasio
Chatwood
White
Rogers (although I think he’s headed for the BP)
Moscoso
DLR (back for 2nd half of season)
Friedrich (although I’m skeptical)
sdcarp, I agree with you: Outman is intriguing. I give him a much better chance at being an effective starter for the Rockies, and even if he isn’t a starter, as a lefty with some good stuff he should at least be a player for a bullpen spot.
I’m going to say this does it for the offseason since I think it’s pretty clear that the money’s gone. Any other player who could make an impact in 2012 would cost us a good prospect, and it looks like the Rockies aren’t going to do that.
So here’s the final tally, including the start of all this, the Ubaldo trade:
OUTGOING:
Ubaldo
Iannetta
Stewart
Smith
Street
Ellis
Spilly
(Casey Weathers – minors)
INCOMING:
Pomeranz
White
(Gardner – minors)
Hernandez
Chatwood
Colvin
LeMahieu
Cuddyer
Moscoso
Outman
Scutaro
Q. Assume none of these moves were made. Would that team be more or less likely to win in 2012 than the new edition? How about in 2014?
rox before the cleanup would be much worse.
And I forgot Casey Blake on the incoming list.
I know this won’t answer your question – but do we get the 2011 Ubaldo, or the 2009-2010 Ubaldo?
I’m concerned about Ubaldo. I just recently read that he missed a significant percentage of Winter Ball due to having the flu. The flu? I’m not sure about the guy’s “makeup.”
First post after ITR’s demise. Broke silence to say, “Way to go” to DO’D. This one was worth waiting for. It solidifies the whole lineup. Not your Lopez/Wigginton type rental…this one is for real.
Agbayani,
You should add Wigginton and Greg Reynolds to the outgoing list, and Putnam and the righthanded outfielder whose name I can’t remember, but he’s on our 40 man roster, to the incoming list. You might add Slowey to both the incoming and the outgoing list (LOL).
Scutaro is a great pickup for the Rockies. Do the Red Sox really think that Mortensen will be in their starting rotation? He had a couple of decent outings last year, but also some terrible outings.
I’m not sure that DOD is done. There are a few tweaks that can still be done to the roster.
As has been mentioned, out of EY, Herrera, Chris Nelson, and LeMahieu, we need to only retain one of them (probably Nelson or Herrera) as a utility infielder, so we could include the rest in trades. Another starting pitcher for 2012 would be great.
If Rosario starts the year in AAA, then who will the backup catcher be? Will it be Nieves?
Do we have a left handed reliever, not including Brothers, to provide competition for Matt Reynolds?
I vote Johnny Sparkplug – not just because he is CarGo’s childhood friend which, i personally believe, brings an intangible to CarGo’s happiness that can’t be measured, but also because he is very good at Short and 3rd when needed. His fielding is excellent and through the middle of May he had the 3rd best average and 2nd best OBP. It was when he was benched during the middle of May for 3 to 4 games at a time that his numbers started to suffer (classic Tracy move – sit the hot player to play the match-up). I like Nelson as well, but love Johnny (probably cause he has the best nickname!)
Sounds like a good deal for the Rockies. So, why am I questioning the Red Sox motives? Is there something with Scutaro that only they know? Medical history? We know what we had in Mortenson, a AAAA pitcher who would probably have not made the team out of ST. On the surface it seems like the Rockies fleeced the Sox and I guess that is what makes me nervous. Am I crazy?
They traded Scutaro to free up some money. That is what there motive was. With Scutaro’s salary gone they are now going to go after Roy Oswalt. It’s about time they gave us a decent player back after all the players we’ve given them.
Ahhh a good nights sleep and I’m still smiling. The last couple of days have been a roller coaster with stuff coming from both the Red Sox and the Rockies that made absolutely zero sense. I think there are people from both organizations that could move on to politics.
I for one am glad this finally happened. Sounds like there are some media outlets in the New England area that are not so happy.
Like I said the other day. Yes he is 35 and yes he will have to re-adjust to playing second but I really believe he will work out and be a solid addition. I also get an additional benenfit from this :>) advantage Rays LOL My sister has already called asking how I think Mortensen will do in the Trop.
What I like best, is that we have added a bunch of gamers to the clubhouse. I feel like we have a lineup that will battle each night regardless of how well Tulo and Cargo are doing Okay, JT, don’t screw it all up.
Robb, your thoughts are the same as mine. Seems like the Rockies stole Scutaro. Why would the Red Sox do that? Mortensen isn’t the reason, that’s for sure.
Looks like it’s purely financial. The Red Sox are apparently done with the free-spending days of the last decade, and they need to cut salary in order to get the pitcher they need. But that leaves them with a gaping hole at SS. Worse players than Scutaro (see Mark Ellis) made more money on the free agent market. So in this case, O’Dowd’s patience paid off.
On Outman/Moscoso again: everyone knows I think Moscoso has little value. But Outman could be a Jeremy Affeldt type acquisition, a guy who turns out to be a very useful lefty out of the bullpen. Lifetime (small sample/156 plate appearances): lefties have hit .179/.230/.336 against him — a ridiculously low OPS of 466. If he’s healthy, he may take over that Frankie Morales role and actually succeed.
I actually love this deal on so many different levels, I could write a book about it. In short I have taken many well deserved shots at DanO over the last three years for being too left handed in the lineup as well as being too reluctant to move his young prospects that are just not working out as planned.
Just a couple of quick notes: 1. The Rockies have now turned over 50% of the 2011 starting “eight” lineup with only Tulo, Caro, Dex and Helton surviving the purge. 2. The replacements (Blake, Cuddyer, Hernandez and Scutaro) are all right handed bats, veterans (30+) and reportedly strong clubhouse guys.
This roster purge speaks volumes about what intuitively many of us thought was the problem during the last couple of years. The Rockies players read too much pre-season pub and then failed to deliver the work ethic during the season that was obviously required to succeed at the MLB level.
This team now has J Tracy’s type of players (his previous pet dog house players Smith, Stewart and Iannetta are now gone) and as such DanO has made a sincere effort to clean house. DanO I take back most of what I said about you – great off season job!
I’m glad to read that everyone (even pessimistic Agbayani, LOL) likes the deal. I’m still not sure how we got away with just giving up Mortensen. I wonder if the Red Sox were asking for a better pitcher initially, and DOD held his ground and said no, and that’s why the deal had initially died. Also, I wonder if Nelson or Herrera are better than either of the guys who the Red Sox will now platoon at shortstop, and, if so, why they weren’t part of the deal.
Saw a link on Twitter last night that led to an audio link from MLB.com’s Red Sox beat guy (can’t recall his name) saying the move was 100% about payroll and freeing up money for the Bosox to make a run at Oswalt. They felt comfortable with Aviles at SS and felt that Scutaro was expendable. For whatever reason Boston did it, I’m glad it happened.
As far as the Rockies go, position player-wise, I see no holes. It’s a good-looking lineup that should score a lot of runs. I don’t see them stealing a lot of bases, but good situational hitting and a lineup full of gamers can overcome that. We’ll have to wait and see about the pitching.
I saw another post on DP’s page by someone who questioned the move because it makes the Rox very old in the IF. My take on it is, so what? If the Rox can get 1 good year (or portion of one until Nolan is ready at 3B) out of Blake and 1-2 good years out of Marco, it’s all worth it.
Of course there’s always the injury bug or the “Adam Dunn effect” with a player, but on paper, these guys figure to be solid contenders in the NL West.
I like Aviles as an offensive player – but really wonder about him (specifically his range) at SS. Lets face it – Chris Getz (not exactly a world beater) forced him from 2nd to 3rd at KC. He held that position just long enough to keep it warm for Mike Moustakas. Then he’s shipped to Boston as a Utility guy. Now all of a sudden he’s going to become an everyday SS?????? I’m not buying it.
My AL East predictions for 2K12
1. NYY
1A. TB
gigantic gap
3. Boston
3A. Toronto
another gigantic gap
5. Baltimore
Could be very true.
egossage,
Exactly which ‘decent’ players have we given the BoSox? Frankie Morales, who everyone here couldn’t get rid fast enough. McHenry, who had no future with the Rox and is no longer with Boston? Please help me wrap my arms as to which other decent player we’ve given them.
I didn’t say we gave them decent players. I said we finally got a decent player back from them besides cash or a player to be named later.
Not true. I am a HUGE Franklin Morales fan and was sad to see him not work out.
Me too
i was for most of his time here but towards the end i was really upset to see him come in in situations that were too close…i completely lost my faith in him – but i really wanted him to succeed and think he has sick stuff – just not the mind…
Cisco asks what decent players have we ever given the Red Sox? Not sure about that. But I do know we’ve gotten burned a couple times by the Red Sox. I saw a comment somewhere else this morning saying that this is our revenge for Manny Delcarmen … or maybe for that whole Larry Bigbie/Eric Byrnes fiasco.
All of a sudden everyone’s a Frankie Morales fan.
I was a fan of Morales’s talent – but he couldn’t harness it, so I wasn’t a fan of the “package.”
Now if we could get Morales back – and somehow screw Jamie Moyer’s head on his shoulders, I think we might be onto something!
Actually I think almost everyone here was a fan of Morales.
The point I’m trying to make fellas is that in the trade history of both teams, the teams have essentially traded garbage for garbage. Didn’t we once dump Mike Lansing & Rolando Arroyo’s contracts on them? If I remember correctly we once also picked up a fairly serviceable 2nd basement from them who played with the Rox a couple of seasons (Walker??). I’ll venture to say that when you tally up all the trades between the teams, including yesterday’s Scutaro trade, we may be up on the BoSox.
And BTW, before anyone brings up the name of Balcom-Miller, please let’s wait until the kid plays above AA before we give him the Cy Young. As far as I’m concerned he’s still a minor league suspect.
Todd Walker was obtained from Minnesota.
Getting rid of Lansing (and his contract) was a major coup for O’Dowd, even if Rox received no players of note in return.
I would rate Scutaro as clearly the best player involved in any Rockies-Red Sox trade.
Alex C,
You’re right, I believe the 2B I was referring to that came over from Boston was Bellhorn.
Does anyone else think that J Tracy might grant Dex his previously stated wish – with Scutaro hitting 1st and Dex hitting 2nd in the lineup. Scutaro has previous experience in the leadoff spot and if somehow that would avert a 1st half slump by Dex – then why not?
Can’t wait to do the Marco Scutaro (1B side fans “Marco,” 3B side fans reply “Scutaro”) cheer.
I don’t want to get carried away here. We got a pretty good second baseman who can also fill in very capably at SS. The excitement comes from realizing exactly how poor our other 2B options were. In other words, the upgrade from a Herrera type to Scutaro is significantly greater than the upgrade from Seth Smith (plus competent platoon partner) to Cuddyer. Plus Scutaro is like a Barmes in that he can easily slide over to SS if Tulo misses a few (or more) games. Sorry, Jonny (I like how he plays), but I think that allows Tracy to carry another bat off the bench rather than a defensive sub like Herrera. I hope LeMahieu grabs that opportunity. If not, Pacheco may have a shot.
“At the end of the season, Scutaro said he preferred to play second base, since he considers it his best position, and that’s where he’s expected to play for the Rockies.
While never a pure shortstop, Scutaro got by defensively, and he is a hard-nosed player willing to play hurt. He played through a shoulder injury in 2010 that made it difficult for him to make strong throws from the hole.”
I love reading “hard nosed, willing to play hurt” things like that really stand out because he is 100% all in when playing…on the other side of it, i never want to read about a player being hurt that is coming to our team…my friend said he has a GUN of an arm, so that will be nice to watch – poor Todd, like a double-barreled shot gun coming at him…
I got the above from: http://tinyurl.com/scutRox
Since some of you like the advanced stats stuff — at least when it brings good news, that is — one of the best stats guys out there, Clay Davenport, just put out his early, early projections. (Type in his full name, no spaces, dot com).
Good news indeed: The Rockies are projected to be the top run scoring team in the NL. And overall the news is even better: they project at 84-78, trailing only the D’backs (87 wins) and ahead of the Giants (83) and Dodgers (81), and of course the Pads (73).
And that’s BEFORE Scutaro. Scutaro adds 2 wins vs. Herrera (or Nelson, or pretty much anybody else they could’ve plugged in at 2B). So guess what: for now, Clay projects the Rox as an 86 win team, neck-and-neck with the D’backs.
Now for what you all knew was coming: there’s some really optimistic pitching projections in Clay’s data. He has the following from the starters — remember that every 10 runs above a replacement level starter, or WAR (think Clay Mortensen for “replacement level”) translates into one additional win over the course of a season:
Chacin: 32.9
Hammel: 19.7
I have no problem with those two.
Pomeranz: 27.3
Wow, he has a rookie with very little minor league experience as a nearly 3 win pitcher over the course of 136 innings/22 starts. That’s like a Jorge De La Rosa already. Like I said, great if it happens, but that seems a bit optimistic.
Nicasio: 23.5 over 18 starts
IF he can come back fully, I have more confidence in this one. Nicasio had a fantastic minor league season before his call-up, and more of a MLB track record than Pomeranz. But still, a big if.
De La Rosa: 21.3 over 15 starts.
So Clay is just going with the basic “I’ll assume he comes back mid-season, and doesn’t lose anything.” That’s probably anyone’s best guess based on other TJ surgery guys, but the variance is huge: he could go 2/3 of a season in his pre-injury form, or he could get 10 starts total and struggle to put things back together. Only time will tell.
Moscoso: 9.5 over only 65 innings (about 10 starts)
Seems optimistic on the performance end. Still, I’ll be over the moon if we only need 10 starts from Moscoso; that would mean De La Rosa and Nicasio are back in pre-injury form from the beginning of June or so.
So that’s cause for optimism. This is an interesting 2012 club. You never know in baseball (see last year as an example), but this is a club where we really, really, really don’t know how things will play out. If the old guys (Hernandez, Helton, Scutaro, Blake) all have something in the tank and can hold their positions for 120 games each or so, and IF the injured/rookie pitchers can put in the work Clay predicts for them, we’ve got a real competitor. But if guys like Helton/Hernandez/Blake break down, and the pitchers can’t come back as soon (or as effectively), we could be looking at another mid-70s win team. Or even worse.
Hey, just don’t tell me I bring you guys only bad news …
Last year I came up with FISSH. Agbayani mentioned the old guys holding up. So this year I throw out there “FOGS” Will these 2 groups and one person put a fog around the team. “FOGS” stands for:
Fowler: can we get a full season like the last half of the last 2 seasons.
Old Guys: will they hold up, do we have the depth if they don’t
Starters: the biggest question mark out there.
If all three hold up it could be a good year.
If this is too much of a stretch for an acronym then we’ll have to search for another.
Agbayani, keep the stats and opinions, good or bad coming. I lean more toward the optimist but I enjoy your take. I also enjoy Cisco’s take and every poster on here.
I can go with that. If we can indeed see through the FOGS I think we’ll have an awesome season.
Thanks, Prog. I thought it might also inspire some witty quips.
I like it!!! Marco is a stud!! My bold prediction for 2012 is the rotation will end up being the best rotation in Rockies history. I also don’t think the rotation will include Hammel, White, or Moyer. Watch out for Nicasio, Chatwood, and Moscoso!! Should be a great battle in spring training!
Where do you suppose EYJ fits in the big league line-up now, Pooter
4 outfielder/ pinch runner/ backup 2nd basemen We can call him SLASH!!!!
More on projections:
Clay Davenport noticed some, umm, mistakes in his projection sheet.
He now has a much more realistic picture on Drew Pomeranz: a projected 4.33 ERA, 1.1 Wins Above Replacement. That’s quite a drop from what he had in his first take.
On these projections in general: trust me, they’re the only sensible way we have to do these things. They’re based on past performance. Any good system looks at 3-4 years of past performances and weights them: 50%, 30%, 20% going back year-by-year, etc. When a guy like Pomeranz is too new to have a track record, you generally rely on what you’ve got (really one year of pro ball) and then regress heavily to the mean. That means you blend, say, 30% of his 2011 performance and 70% of the average MLB starter. That’s how you get to a 4.33 ERA. It would be foolish to assume that he’ll replicate his 2011 over the course of a whole year.
You also need to have a good sense of “minor league equivalents.” That is, how does a K rate of 10.0 per 9 innings pitched in Tulsa translate into MLB performance? If you have good data you can get pretty good at this. It’s not perfect, but again it’s the best way of projecting performance from a guy like Pomeranz.
Good news still: Clay still has the Rox (post-Marco) at 85 wins; that’s even with the D’backs at the top of the division.