You know your team is having a bad year when even a big win against baseball’s top team comes with self-imposed controversy.
Such is life as a Rockies Fan, circa 2012.
Coming into Arlington the team had pretty much the exact inverse relationship to the Rangers record (26-42 vs 43-27), so it came as no surprise that the team would drop the first game in ho-hum fashion, losing 4-1 and handing Oswalt his first win as a Ranger.
Saturday, day six of the “4 Man Laughing Stock Rotation” experiment, figured to be more of the same.
That is until the team decided to turn Ranger Stadium into a Coors Field batting practice session.
The hitting got interesting in the top of the third, with Jordan Pacheco up and one out. He started what turned into a string of singles that saw the team put up four runs. Cargo, Giambi, Colvin and Nelson all got in on the action.
Then in the top of the fourth Dex, Johnny, Jordan and Cuddy combined to score three more with the doubles by the Sparkplug and Cuddyer making the highlights.
Not finished yet, a rarity for a team that scores early but not often, the top of the fifth was just as exciting, if not more so, thanks to the long ball. Nelson (double), Nieves (HR) and Dex (HR) in back-to-back fashion, brought the score to 11-1.
Surely 10 more runs than your opponent is enough, right?
And this is where the glaring error in the “4 man, 75 pitch” experiment was placed front and center.
ANY pitcher starting a game, when their own team has a 10 run lead, can usually expect to walk with the win – barring injury or illness.
That is, any pitcher but Mr. O’Dowd’s starting four.
HISTORY LESSON FOR THE NIGHT: A starting pitcher, in order to get the win, must complete five innings in order to be eligible for the win.
KEY STAT FOR THE NIGHT: In order for a pitcher, who is on a 75 pitch count limit, to complete five innings, he must pitch (on average) 15 pitches per inning.
Now, pitch counts are extremely controversial. With many detractors, as well as history showing how arbitrary and inane it is, it is obviously only truly loved by agents and owners, both wanting to “protect” their prized possessions.
Ironically, one of the biggest voices against pitch counts is none-other than Rangers Owner, and pitching legend, Nolan Ryan.
Which brings us to why the Rockies starting staff should boycott the mound until this perfect storm of stupidity has passed.
Josh Outman had pitched extremely effectively through four, giving up only one run on five hits. Four of the five hits were singles, with the only run coming off a solo HR in the fourth. He had a perfect third inning, not to mention striking out Josh Hamilton in the first.
Outman in the 4th - image by Rox Addict
Outman was sitting at 69 pitches after four and the team was sporting a 10 run lead.
So, Tracy hands him the ball and, “told him it was his inning”.
It was an inning that began well, with a fly out and a strike out (of Hamilton again) in-between a single and a walk. But then the cracks started to show in the paint.
Two back-to-back RBI singles is all it takes for Tracy to un-tell him it is his inning.
The team is still up by eight runs with two outs, but that doesn’t matter, because the 75 pitch count trumps the win any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.
Enter Ottavino, exit ball stage center and instantly the Rangers are three runs closer to the Rockies. Five pitches later and another run is shaved off the lead.
Once the dust settled, the Rangers put a six-spot on the scoreboard and were only down 11-7 in the fifth. Outman was charged with five of the runs, although Ottavino handed him two with his poorly placed slider.
The Rockies were able to hold the lead, thanks in part to excellent pitching by the Killer B’s (Brothers, Belisle and Betancourt), but Outman didn’t get the win.
And that is exactly why Outman, and the rest of them, should boycott the season. Obviously it would never happen, since no pitcher wants to not pitch. But, one look at the lines of the starting four come season end, and you’d think with all of the microscopic numbers bound to be in the W column, it will seem like none of them really pitched anyway.
“Unless you live it day in and day out you really just don’t have a true grasp of completely understanding what we’re trying to do here.” – DOD
“Honestly I’m really not concerned with what everybody thinks all the time.” – DOD
So there you have it fellow RWO-ers. We just don’t have the ability to understand how things work with the Rockies. (According to DOD, Apodaca has been here long enough to get it but MFLJT has not.) Luckily for us we have the best GM in the game to do our thinking for us.
I’m not always a Woody Paige fan, but here’s a link to his article in today’s DP:
http://www.denverpost.com/paige/ci_20926027/paige-how-fix-dan-odowds-mess-rockies-general?source=rss
Hammer > meet nail!
When and if (big “if”) the Rox do change leadership, I continue to say look to the Texas Rangers for a little guidance – or flat out steal some of their people. They live within a similar “extreme” environment where is was not going to be possible to build a consistent winner. Obviously they’ve done some things correctly.
Hate to say it, but Woody is right this time. Particularly regarding the position players and the need to get Colvin/Pacheco/Nelson/Rosario in there essentially full time. This is an extended big league tryout for those guys. As a practical matter, Cuddyer isn’t going anywhere though. He was signed to a somewhat above-market deal, he’s performed as expected (but not better than expected), and I doubt you’d find any takers for him.
As for the pitching staff: a bit early I think on Cabrera, but he is kind of old for his league and I don’t see any downside to giving him a look after the trading deadline. He mentions Bettis, but as far as I know Bettis hasn’t thrown a pitch all year. Wheeler is in line for a September call-up, but the outfield is already crowded.
My bottom line: other than Tulo (the lone marquee player, plus the big contract would be difficult to move) and Helton (retire a lifetime Rockie; no trade value anyway), I don’t think this club has a single player who should be deemed untouchable. Right deal for CarGo? Take it. Dex? Take it. There’s no reason to dump those guys for the sake of doing so — they’re cost-controlled, and they’re productive and hardly part of the problem. But if someone wants to give you a great deal, you gotta take it. On the other hand, Woody is right: Betancourt, Scutaro, Hernandez (an incredibly stupid signing in retrospect), Belisle all have decent trade value — particularly the first two — and they don’t figure to be around the next time the Rockies have reasonable dreams of being competitive. So move ‘em while you can and let the young guys play.
Agb…you(and jaredean)are right on the money!!
i would trade Tulo before I traded cargo
Great comments, Jared. Also enjoyed the brutally honest DP Paige article. He even calls out the shills for ROOT and KOA – loved that, as I just can’t listen to them anymore. I mostly agree with Paige’s recs except about Cuddyer. We definitely overpaid (see: Willingham) but he has been a good pickup and is the only approving nod I’ll give to their overblown obsession with improving club culture. But yes please trade Giambi and Scutaro and Hernandez and let the future guys have bigger roles. I’m all for penciling in Pacheco as Todd ‘s replacement but we might want to take a look at Matt McBride too. But keep Jordan in at third or backup catcher. Give Nelson a good long chance at second as we await Rutledge. Big changes are needed as we’ve gone from simple frustration to being the laughing stock of baseball.
Heard there will be a conference call Wednesday for season tx holders with DOD and Monfort. Will anyone be on that to report?
BGiCS…you are spot on, as usual. Liked the shill reference as well…muting the TV has never felt so good…man are they terrible.
I second the request for a season ticket holder to report back on the DOD and Monfort call. Don’t have tix this year, so can’t do it myself.
The Cuddyer move is mostly a bad move because we have a bucket load of OF prospects and it was an overpay. I don’t have any negative comments about Cuddyer himself. He’s played fine. Just a dumb, short sighted move on O’Dowd’s part. As was Scutaro. It doesn’t make sense to block your deepest minor league position. If you do, then you might as well trade Wheeler and Blackmon.
I actually don’t have a problem with the Hernandez move. He was great prior to the injury.
In retrospect, here is how I would have built the roster.
OF: Cargo, Colvin, Fowler, EYJ, Wheeler
IF: Tulo, Helton, Nelson, Herrera, Pacheco
C: Rosario, Hernandez
OK look. The 4-man/75-pitch thing is being deployed for psychological reasons. You’ve got four guys it can easily be argued are not major league pitchers. They’ve been getting regularly shelled and are under extreme pressure (of their own making). What they are doing is giving the starters a fixed scope of work: give me 75 competent pitches and we’ll take it from there. Francis’ outing Thursday was emblematic of what they are hoping for. So hopefully after four or five 75-pitch starts these guys have got their heads underneath them better, and then you’re getting into a zone where you can bring-on Pomeranz and move back to a conventional rotation for the final third of the season.
Pomeranz, Nicasio, Chacin, de la Rosa. It gets interesting.
In the meantime, you’re trying to get the wheels back on the track and field a competent and potentially exciting squad, as opposed to this horror show we’ve been subjected to this month. The 4-man thing also democratizes the pitching staff to some extent: there is no possibility of a complete game. So the starters and the relief corps have to pull-together as a team to get victories (contrasted with the pen coming-on to mop-up after another starter’s disaster).
And finally, you had to get Guthrie out of the rotation. He was FLAMING. And if you can’t release him if you expect to salvage any value for him. So you hope to reclaim him in this piggy-back role (or whatever they’re calling it).
Wins for Josh Outman or the other starters? Who cares if you’re 2-11 or 3-10? And to quote Renck, “they have no compelling argument against this current scenario.” As for Outman being _issed about being pulled, I guess I was watching another game from you guys, because what I saw was a boxer on the ropes and fading fast. And he got 92 pitches. Why is everyone whining about the “hard” 75-pitch limit?
Now on Woody’s thing, to be honest I can’t stand the guy, but he does find more than his share of acorns. What I don’t understand, and maybe I’m just not seeing it, is why isn’t anyone calling on the BIB to RESIGN? Everyone’s begging for him to be fired, but Monfort’s said that’s not going to happen. The BIB must resign: he’s had his job for a dozen years, he had his “big buy” with Hampton + Neagle and it didn’t work-out, now he’s had his chance to rebuild from within and it didn’t work out. He tried to build a bridge across 2012 and it simply blew his face to smithereens. It’s over Danny, be a man and step aside.
I find the remainder of Woody’s scenario pretty rash. He’s certainly not breaking any news calling for trades of Guthrie, Scutaro and Hernandez. And what is all this hate for Cuddyer?
IMO he’s been everything we hoped. He’s a consummate pro and he’s assumed a leadership role on a team that hasn’t found anyone else who can take it. And if I hear one more time how we “overpaid” I’m going to have a digestive event.
But I would not call-up Arenado and all these other guys. Two major things have happened: Pacheco has won the third-base job and Nelson has won second-base, as Ag noted in the pre-game. I would not mess with that, and then just go with Herrera at short once Scutaro is moved. I WOULD do this: make Cuddyer the regular 1B and Colvin the regular RF, Helton playing two days a week with Cuddyer spelling Colvin or CarGo or taking a day himself. But field a stable team. Don’t bring-up a bunch of guys for “tryouts.”
So the BIB resigns and you bring in a new guy from Woody’s list. Then what about the MLF? To me, he goes, along with the rest of his staff. I can’t imagine playing for those guys right now. If I’m a player I’m thinking “what a bunch of old fuddy-duddies.”
I agree with everything you said, Jeem. You nailed it.
While Woody makes some good points, he is prone to hyperbole as well as throwing a bunch of you-know-what against the wall and whatever sticks, he takes credit for the idea. I think that’s what he was doing with today’s column, so when the inevitable comes to pass, he can puff out his chest and say, “see? I told ya so!”.
I would dump Dan and most of the coaching staff, but keep guys like Vinny around (and yes, even add somebody like Bichette) to keep the ties to the past strong and loyalties intact while the franchise starts over (again). I would not promote McLaughlin (nothing personal), I would go outside the organization to build a new organizational culture from the top down.
Nolan Ryan was not ridiculing the 4 man rotation in his interview with Cowboy, at least that’s not how I saw it. I think he gets what the purpose of it is. I don’t know who Woody is referring to as laughing at it, unless it’s sportswriters. This move is purely one designed to stop the bleeding until things can get stabilized. We all have to admit that for the past 2 months, things have been spinning out of control. I have to give them credit for trying something… anything to right the ship.
Now let’s make the necessary changes. All of ‘em.
Oops. Vinny is on the staff? By all means keep Vinny.
Prog, disagree on Scutaro. He was, on paper, a very significant upgrade over any in-house option. He’s on a 1-year contract. We gave up nothing of value to get him. We can trade him at any time, probably for more than what we gave up to get him. Given that the club’s out of contention and he won’t be back anyway, there’s just no reason to keep him around past the trade deadline.
Pacheco playing 1B? I’m fine with that for now, since I want to make sure Pacheco/Nelson/Colvin all get plenty of playing time since they’re all cost-controlled for the next few years. Like I said, an open tryout. But Pacheco probably doesn’t have the bat to stick as a regular third baseman (and maybe not the glove either; that remains to be determined too), so he certainly doesn’t have the bat to be a regular first baseman. He has an odd skill set — great contact skills, not much power, but almost never walks (3 walks all year) so a low OBP. I would like to see Arenado this year, but since he’s not tearing up Tulsa there’s no reason to rush him, so if Helton gets some downtime (and with Tulo out), there ought to be plenty of at bats for all the young guys.
If Jim Tracy wants there to be …
“…because the 75 pitch count trumps the win any day of the week, and twice on Sunday.”
JD-does that mean that today’s starter will only get 37 1/2 pitches today?
I never was a math major…..
“Now, pitch counts are extremely controversial. With many detractors, as well as history showing how arbitrary and inane it is, it is obviously only truly loved by agents and owners, both wanting to “protect” their prized possessions”
Agreed jare. Also loved by the media because it gives them an on air source of controversy. They get to yammer about nothing.
Pomeranz pitched 51/3 innings today, gave up just one hit, a single, but walked 4 and needed 101 pitches to get through 5 1/3 innings. So, he appears to be moving in the right direction. Did any of you guys see the game? I suspect it won’t be long before we see him in a Rockies uniform.
By the way two ex Rox who I don’t think we got squat for won games for the Red Sox the last two games. Franklin Morales yesterday and Aaron Cook today.
And yeah I know Morales was very maddening when he was here and Cook was just a shadow of himself but Fenway isn’t the easiest place to pitch either. Coors Field gets alot of the blame and in today’s DP Renck quotes DoD as blaming Coors for being like pre-humidor days but perhaps someday, hopefully soon, the Rocks will see fit to try a different pitching coach and we can see improvement in our young pitchers.
I was just reading MLB Trade Rumors. It talked about the Pirates shopping Kevin Correia and needing an offensive upgrade and maybe being interested in a player like Marco Scutaro. Is Correia an upgrade in the rotation for us? Could there be a trade there that would be a win/win?
Yes, Correia is an upgrade, in the same way that Jeff Francis was an upgrade. Which is not the kind of upgrade we should care about. Give me a prospect, any reasonable prospect …
I think Correia is a FA anyway, so really no incentive for the Rox to go after him.
Hi guys,
I am tired to moaning about the team and agree with almost all the comments, so instead I am going to moan about Jeff Huston is it just me or is he the most annoying person ever? He has played every position for every team and know exactly what every player is thinking. I could scream listening to him for any length of time. I turn off the volume and the next thing I know some call/lack there of/injury/ whatever happens and I am turning of the volume and listening to the jerk tell me how many times this has happened before.
What is most annoying:
Drew Goodman
George Frazier
Jenny Cavnar
Jeff Huson
Hawk Harrelson
Beavis
Butthead
Rachel Black (of “It’s Friday” fame)
Fran Drescher
Hemmoroids
Jack Corrigan and Jerry Schemmel should be on the list …
puzzled by those who think Cuddyer wasn’t a good sign. Now I tend to agree that he signed for a high salary but let’s not fault him. He has produced for the team and continues to in the areas he was noted for..he certainly wasn’t know for hitting 40 HRs so I don’t get worked up when he doesn’t. I don’t fault anyone for signing a big contract…get what you can. Now those who offer those contracts..that is a different story.
Most of you know my lack of enthusiasm for keeping EY2. I have yet to ever read any solid reason to keep him on the roster. His “Willy Mays Hayes” at bats, his lack of arm strength and questionable at best defense. Oh wait..he is fast. At least Johnny Spark is back so no more talk of 2nd base. To be fair, as much as I kick myself for saying…thinking time for a hard look at Todd and Giambino…at least starting 2013.
Still wearing the purple!
Go Rox
Yeah, i’m puzzled as well…i think Cuddy was one of the very few signings they got right (and the trade for Colvin, which nobody saw turning out as well as it did)…Did we overpay? Yep, but better overpay for someone that actually works his butt off daily and actually makes a difference than spending less on someone that isn’t worth it and only makes you worse of a team (read: Scutaro)…
IMO its a bad signing because it was pointless. So, OK, his superb leadership and hustle means we lose 100 instead of 103 games. Great. We have young and underused prospects that need to play. I guess I’d rather have a 100 loss team that develops prospects than one that is flush with vets who block the future from getting better. If he had 5 years left, maybe its a good signing, but does anyone think he’ll be here by the time we are contending?
Prog, he was signed in the off-season as a piece of the puzzle to get us to the play-offs this year…you are talking about if he is a good signing today, while the signing happened back when the front office was trying to put a solid team on the field for this season.
Yes, today it looks like we are on our way to 100 loses and giving someone like Chris Nelson time at second has proven to be a bright spot, but you can’t use today’s standings and logic for last years signing…
If we’d brought a bunch of “young and underused prospects” up to play on April 1st, you would have a TON of people upset (you included i’m sure), by saying that we should have a team to contend this season.
Besides, that is almost exactly the words used of our pitching staff before the season started: Young and Unknown…look how that turned out!
I personally think he was a good pickup, a little overpaid, but a good pickup. It isn’t his fault we are in the basement – that, my friend, lies squarely on the shoulders of the pitching staff.
Yeah, but how else do you rate someone’s job performance other than the results?
If good intentions were enough to judge success then I guess Dan O’Dowd really is the best in the business.
1. George Frazier
1. tie Jeff Huson
3. tie Beavis & Butthead
4. Hemmoroids
5. Hawk Harrelson
6. Drew Goodman
7. Jenny Cavnar
Don’t even know who these folks are
Rachel Black (of “It’s Friday” fame)
Fran Drescher
Prog is right. Why commit 33 million bucks over 3 years to an average rightfielder when (1) we already had one of those for much cheaper (2) A’s should be obvious to anyone, this club had far bigger problems than getting an expensive minor upgrade in rightfield. I have no problem with Cuddy, and I really like him as a player. But face facts: he was supposed to deliver more than his paper value through his intangibles like improving clubhouse culture. How’s that working out for Dan O?
Hey guys… first posting since the old site went away….
ya know… I understand the logic of playing cheaper players/prospects instead of guys like Cuddy. In some ways I agree with it. However, I’m tired of my major league team being the place where I train AAA players how to play in the Springs. (it’s an illustration of how bad the organization is)
Bottom line, Odowd has failed to fill the system with any quality depth. There are at best a couple decent prospects out there.
IMHO, Prospects should be playing in the minors until they are proven ready to play at Coors. How many of the current prospects jumped up here from AA? That’s a tragedy! And the bottom line is we are desperate to bring a prospect up to play here to ‘see what he can do’. The result is we get teased with a period of good play until the league figures the player out, then they fall off the table and they have to get sent down with their confidence shattered…. repeatedly… until they have no value to anyone and we have to release them.
This all started with Todd and the Toddlers. Where we throw the kids in the pool and see if they can swim. Some did ok for a few years. But we never did the quality work to build up more talent behind them. So we are STILL doing that. The organization if focused on finding the phenom, not developing talent.
So, I see that Cuddy is a placeholder. We keep him for 3 years to fill in.. expecting him to be an average (maybe a bit above average) MLB player. While he’s here we can actually help a prospect learn how to play at altitude and against better competition in the springs. To me, that’s a good move. I’d like to have more of these guys.
Imagine if we had 2-3 pitchers of Cuddy type talent/maturity, and a couple other position players like that. Yeah, they are a cut above journeyman level… but they do the work, and do it right. Toss in a Cargo/Tulo/De La Rosa, and you have a contender. And your prospects get better until they can’t wait to come up here and push someone out. That’s what I would like to see.
I have a question…
Maybe I’m chasing a gut feeling that’s wrong. Feel free to tell me. But it seems like every time the Rockies have a pitching/catching tandem that works, they screw over the situation and change the catcher. Hampton started out great, then the Rockies got rid of his catcher. He was pissed, sucked for a bit, then got hurt. Now, Hampton had other problems… but why would you mess with the catcher when your #1 pitcher pitches well for him and you NEED pitching? Yorvit has shown he can manage a staff everywhere he goes… but we can’t afford him? It’s very rare that you find that HOF catcher that can catch, play defense and hit. We’ve never had one of those. But we have had a few that can manage a pitching staff, like Girardi, Torrealba, etc. but they always go away, and the pitching staff crumbles soon afterwards. Am I reading too much into this?