Ask EdtheUmp an Umpiring Question
With 25 years of umpire experience at the Division I, small college and high school level of baseball, RoxWalkOff’s EdtheUmp can help clear up some misconceptions on rules, plays and general umpire responsibilities.
Any subject or questions are encouraged. Just scroll to the bottom to ask your question in the comments section.
PREVIOUS QUESTIONS & ANSWERS (newest Q/A on top)
Ask Ed The Ump (3)
STAYING IN THE BATTER’S BOX
[Q] Ok, so this came to mind while watching Ichiro on Friday night and I think the ROOT guys talked a bit about it, but I was chasing the 2 yr old around the house and didn’t hear. Anyway….Staying in the batter’s box. I was told (a LONG time ago) that any good umpire and/or batter will “accidentally” make sure the back line of the box is wiped away or at least blurred. That being said, Ichiro looked like his foot was at least on the back line during his batting stance. I assume that a batter’s foot needs to be ALL the way out of the batters box when he hits a ball to be called out? Also….does the ball need to be put in play for him to be out (assuming his foot is out of the box) or is it ANY contact (i.e.-foul tip). Thanks Ed-this is better than talking about our baseball team these days!! (TJinPhoenix)
[A] No umpire I’ve encountered scratches out the back line of the batter’s box. I had a high school kid try it on me once and I chewed his ass out big time. College players do it all the time…I didn’t care one way or another. They thought it would help…it doesn’t.
Any part of the foot touching any part of the line is considered “in the box” for purposes of a batted ball, although the batter must have his entire foot on or inside the chalk or paint when getting ready to see a pitch.
As far as being called out for being out of the box, it doesn’t matter if the batted ball is fair or foul…the batter is called out if his entire foot(or both)is out of the box when the ball is hit. The reason for this is simple…the ball isn’t fair or foul until it is touched by a fielder, passes 1st or 3rd base over foul ground or goes out of play without being touched. The instant a ball is hit with his foot out of the box is the determining factor.
This play almost always occurs when a player is trying to bunt or “tops” the ball and it goes almost straight down and caroms somewhere. Virtually all umps(good)at all levels do call it a foul ball if the batters back foot is still in the box and the ball caroms off the ground and hits the batter.
Hope that answers your question(s)TJ. Stay cool.
RUNNER GETTING HIT WITH A BATTED BALL
[Q] In a game with the Mets, a Mets runner was out when he was hit with a batted ball.
Changing the scenario a bit to have a runner on third and the infield pulled in and playing on the grass. If the ball gets past Scutaro and hits the runner is the ruling the same or different. (fcrockiesfan)
[A] fc…a very good question and one the fans would undoubtedly be confused about if it happened.
Once again the simple answer is that the ball is in play as if nothing happened.
Once a batted ball passes any infielder who does not have a chance to field the ball and hits either an umpire or runner the ball remains alive and in play.
BTW, in the original play where the fielders are playing back, most fans(coaches and players as well)aren’t aware that the runner that is hit by the batted ball is declared out and the ball is dead, but additionally the batter is awarded a base hit.
Good question…keep ‘em coming.
RUNNING WAY PAST FIRST AND GOING TO 2nd ON WILD THROW
[Q] A batter/runner (with EYJ speed) hustles down the first base line trying to beat out an infield single. He reaches the bag just ahead of the throw, which sails over the 1B-man’s head and down the RF line. The batter/runner is a good 10-15 feet past 1B when he sees that the throw was bad, turns left and heads to 2B and beats the throw. But since his initial momentum carried him so far past 1B, his direct path to 2B is way out of the baseline. Is it allowed for him to be out of the basepath in this situation? (Miketober)
[A] The simple answer is yes, he is allowed to be out of the baseline on his way to second.
Another scenario…he gets caught in a rundown on your previous play. When and where is HIS baseline? The runners baseline for purposes of umpire determination for when the runner is OUT of the baseline is established when he turns left heading for second…his baseline is now that point and second base. In theory he could be way, way out of the original baseline(a direct line between first and second)in this case. Totally legal…the umpire will have to determine if the runner ran three feet on either side of this “new” line before he can call him out. It should be noted that the umpire may only call a runner out for running outside his baseline IF he runs outside that line to avoid a tag.
[COMMENT] Thanks Ed. It would be legal but hard to officiate if he were way out of the “traditional” base line and got caught in a rundown. Each time he reversed direction (say running back and forth between 1B and 2B) a new base path would be created: from the point he reversed direction to the base he was trying to make it safely to. (Miketober)
Hey all, welcome to the “Ask EdTheUmp” section. Feel free to use it for good or evil!
Ask your questions below and periodically I am moving the completed questions and answers above to keep this page clean.
Ed,
A recent news story caught my attention. “Balkin” Bob Davidson was suspended for one game, as was the Phillies manager. BD had repeatedly not acted to defuse situations (arguments), according to the league. I assume he was warned, maybe more than once.
I’ve never heard of an umpire being suspended in the majors before. Have you? If so, when? Any other comments?
(Side note – I saw a gentleman at the Denver DMV this week who looked a whole lot like you, but didn’t ask who he was. Did I miss a chance to meet you and express appreciation for your RWO posts in person?)
Wally aka Mr. Peabody(and I’m not referencing the Rockie and Bullwinkle show…only the REAL OLD guys know to who I am refering).
First off…no, that was not me you saw. I knew that instantly when you used the term “gentleman.”
As for your inquiry…I’m sure that it has happened a few times before but can only recall one other as I was present when it happened. In San Diego, during the “run” in 2007, Milton Bradley and the first base umpire(whose name eludes me)got into a shouting match which ultimately led to the umpire being suspended for the playoffs in which he was scheduled to work later that season.
Rocky + Bullwinkle! The honorable Mr Rocket J Squirrel.
Proof there was medical marijuana in the ’60′s.
What do you think about this?
Not the particular call, but Jim Leyland’s comments regarding the media and umpires.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-big-league-stew/leyland-begs-media-umpires-accountable-bad-calls-115005638.html
Personally, I’ve been asking this for years. IMO, Umpires should be REQUIRED to speak to the media after every game. 99% of the games will be really easy and non-controversial, but they should be accessible and accountable regardless. Short of that happening, though I dislike Leyland, I have to agree with him here. The media needs to call it for what it is. Do we blame them for the loss? Probably not, but don’t sweep it under the rug either.
I’m with you Prog.
I’ve always thought that if we are getting paid to do a job and we screw it up, we umps should admit it and be willing to talk about it.(Remember Jim Joyce?…there is a reason his is the #1 rated umpire in baseball. Remember his remarks regarding his missed call at first? Class, all the way.)
One of the best memories I have regarding coaches and umpires(basketball and football included)were comments by coaches and their relationship with me. It goes something like this:
“I liked Ed(or any other game official…just using me as an example)as an ump because he was approachable and easy to discuss a play with. On occasion, he also admitted that he may have missed the call for one reason or another…I knew he wasn’t going to change the call but his being honest about the play made it easier to swallow the decision, right or wrong. It’s a part of the game.”
As far as the Leyland matter, I have no idea if the HP ump asked for any help. We NEVER miss a call on purpose, but we certainly miss plays…we see it all the time on TV.
If nothing came of the goof, Leyland would have said “it’s part of the game” and moved on.
But since it had an impact on the outcome(notice I said impact…people can talk until they’re blue in the face, but no single call causes a game to be won or lost, even if it’s the last play of the game…a myriad of plays happen during the contest which affect the ebb and flow and outcome)he simply vented his frustration to the media.
It’s what managers and coaches do(I believe a lot of times it’s to show the owners, players and fans that he is really “into the game to win”).
Leyland has been around long enough to know that umps miss calls.
It’s “part of the game.”
Hope that helps Prog.
Hi Ed, I’ve got a good one for you.
Runner on first, 1 out.
Batter hits a sharp ground ball to the right side. The runner jumps over the ball, so it initially misses him. However, the 2B-man can’t field it cleanly. It bounces off the 2B-man’s leg and deflects back in to the runner.
The umpire calls the runner out for being struck by a hit ball. Right call?
The way the umpire explained it, if it’s off part of the field (the 1B bag or a wall) then the runner is not out if struck. But if it’s off a defensive player then he is out. That doesn’t seem logical to me.
Thanks!
Aha! The plot thickens! In the actual game, not only was the runner called out, but the fielder managed to pick up the ball and step on first ahead of the batter/runner. So it was called a double play.
But I just read this:
“When a runner is called out for being hit by a fair batted ball, the batter gets first base. All other runners remain at the base they held at the time of the pitch, unless forced to advance by the batter being awarded first base.”
So even if the runner was out, it should not have gone for a DP. Do you agree?
Mtbr…
You are correct, sir. No double play. The out at first should have stood up except the ump erred by not killing the ball.
The defensive team gets 2 outs for making an error…hmm…that could set baseball back 100 years or more.
Man, oh man, I can imagine this play will be discussed for some time.
Sometimes the umps are the most clueless on the field…in little league, that is.
Keep ‘em coming.
Miketober…
You sure come up with some dandy plays.
First off, I sure hope this play happened at a little league game and not some HS or college game. The ump sounds like he was trying to come to a logical ruling without having the vaguest clue of what the real ruling should have been.
The runner is NOT out in your first paragraph scenario. Once the ball passes under(or anywhere for that matter)the runner his liability is over. NOTHING that happens after the ball passes him can cause him to be called out by being hit with the ball.
As for your second paragraph and his explanation for being hit with a batted ball, he IS out if it deflects off any bag(any bag, including home plate) if he is touched in fair territory(a bunted ball with the batter having at least one foot still in the batter’s box is simply ruled a dead ball(foul ball if you’d like)…the second part will never happen…the ball has to be a fair ball and by definition the ball would have passed him if it hit a wall and then him(I can’t even fathom how this could possibly happen).
Hope thaty helps with your first question…next question/answer after lunch.
Good one, MTBR
Thanks Ed. You rock!
Ed, this is entirely off the radar and simply a fun silly post.
But I AM curious if you would agree with the rules interpretation of Major League Baseball Rule 6.08(b) at the end. This article is called “Relativistic Baseball” and answers the question.. “What happens if you hit a baseball thrown at 90% of the speed of light?”
And yes, it’s a question that no rockies pitcher is expected to approach in the near future.
If you have sat through a rockies game this year, you’ve probably been so disappointed as to ask stupider questions… so I thought it might be fun to post.
http://what-if.xkcd.com/1/
The laws of physics say the ball must “rebound” off the bat at 89%…thus, it will be exiting slower than when it was arriving.
Of course, I’m probably mistaken since I don’t know “jack-shit” about physics.
Ed, I’ve got a question regarding the runner’s right to initiate contact with the catcher in a Little League level game.
Runner on third, tries to steal home in a kids game. The defender throws home and beats the runner home by several feet. When the catcher receives the ball he is a good 5-6 feet up the line. He applies the tag, but the runner runs through his glove, knocking the ball out, and crosses home plate without sliding. The umpire calls the runner out anyway, ruling that at this level the runner has to slide in at home and is not allowed to crash the catcher.
I would have no problem with this call if not for the fact that the catcher was so far up the line. There was no way the runner could have slid from that distance and had enough momentum to reach the plate. Looking at it from an extreme situation, suppose the catcher had been half way to 3B. Is the runner supposed to slide under a tag 30′ away??
So my question is: does the runner have the right to go home standing up if the catcher is out of position? How far does the catcher have to be up the line before the runner can run through. And can you please review the general rules – at all levels – regarding the runner making contact with the glove and knocking the ball free? In this case he did not swat at the glove or turn his hip or shoulder or stray from the basepath, he just ran straight though the tag.
Miketober…
Sorry for the lagtime in answering this question.
The tag play at home(or any other base for that matter)is easy to call and interpret as long as the umpire knows the rule he is applying.
Most levels have different rules for your stated play…I will delve into the call from the top down.
1) Big Leagues…you can knock the catcher into next week if you want…ie. Ray Fosse/Pete Rose collision.
2) College rules (excluding NAIA in which that division plays by the pro rules, see #1 above)state that you can run into/collide(sometimes violently)with a fielder holding the ball as long as the contact is NOT malicious…we umps decide if it is malicious or not(the defense ALWAYS thinks it’s malicious while the offense NEVER thinks it is).
3) High School rules dictate that IF the fielder is holding the ball, the runner MUST either slide or try to avoid the tag. IF the fielder is NOT holding the ball he must “get out of the runners way.” This leaves a very “gray area” as to the timing of the balls arrival married to the timing of the runners arrival. A violent collision(unless malicious by either player)is simply called a collision as both players are doing what they are allowed to do.
(It should be noted that the crowd, coaches and players will raise a shit-stink depending on who gets the short end of the stick while the other side will simply intone that favorite of all baseball cliches…”it’s baseball, let ‘em play!!”
4) Little league rules I am unfamiliar with, altho, I’m betting it is pretty close to the high school rule.
BTW…there are no distance requirements for where the fielder must/should be when the play occurs.
I often told young umpires that you will know malicious contact when you see it. Merely raising your elbow(s)may just be the runner(or fielder)simply bracing for contact and will draw hoots and hollers from the crowd, etc. but in reality is just a collision.
No matter what the rule and how it is judged by the ump, one side is going to think they got “hosed, big-time, by a horseshit ump.” Every time…count on it.
Hope that answers your question…I’ll try to be more prompt next time.
Thanks Ed. The catcher was holding the ball, so assuming the rules in LL are similar to high school, the runner should have tried to avoid the tag, and was correctly called out.
I assume the same is true between bases, for example first to second.
It’s interesting that we as coaches always instruct kids to put their free hand on the glove when tagging so the ball can’t come out. I guess that is only necessary when the defender is applying the force, not the runner. But it’s still a good habit to get in to.
Hi Ed,
I have a question on Interference (Rule 7.09). Let’s say we bases loaded, and the batter hits a ground ball to the SS. The runner from 2nd accidentally runs into the SS – who was in the basepath in the act of fielding the ball – and breaks up the play. (The interference is unintentional – this is a LL game.)
I understand that the runner that collided with the SS is out and the ball is dead. The other runners return to their original bases (1st and 3rd). What I don’t know is what happens to the batter. Is he awarded 1B (pushing the runner originally on 1st to 2nd)? Or is he also called out? Like I said, the contact was not malicious.
(If the batted ball had struck the runner going from 2nd to 3rd, that runner would be called out, dead ball, and the batter would be awarded 1st base. So I would think the call on the non-malicious collision would be about the same.)
Thanks.