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Colorado Thistle
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Colorado Thistle

The problem is hit on by Prog: a Tulo trade might make sense if we had a Jerry Dipoto calling the shots; but instead, we have O’Dowd, who is at least 5 years past his prime. Since the failed Ubaldo trade, I’d be afraid to let him negotiate on a used car for me, let alone trade away proven talent.

sdcarp
Guest
sdcarp

Yes……..I’m psyched for the Hot Stove thread! Thanks Jaredean.

Bob in WV
Member
Bob in WV

Hey gang, here’s a couple of things for you. First, some of you may remember that in May I fell off a ladder and broke my back, which happened shortly after I lost my job. (Yes, I still had insurance.) Just want you all to know that even though my back gets real stiff at times, and probably will through the winter, I’m doing well. In fact, the last two weekends I officiated 3 hockey games. That was my goal through the PT and that has been achieved. Thanks again for the kind words last spring. I don’t know any… Read more »

Mike Raysfan
Guest
Mike Raysfan

Glad you are doing a lot better Bob.

sdcarp
Guest
sdcarp

Excellent news Bob!

Agbayani
Member
Agbayani

Bob, glad to hear you’re doing a lot better!

rockymountainhigh
Admin
rockymountainhigh

I knew you would be able to recover like my wife did. I also got furloughed (after 9/11) but got back on my feet. You and I are in the same boat! Good to see you back BobWV.

jaredean
Admin
jaredean

Bob, i am SO glad you are doing better. I know you’ve struggled a lot with your health lately and it is so good to hear that you are on the mend and on the ice! Great work my friend! I’m sure many of you have noticed my absence from RWO over the past few weeks. I am truly sorry that lately i haven’t given the time to the site that you all deserve. I have to admit, this season took its toll on me. This site is a lot harder to run than i was expecting when i first… Read more »

Mike Raysfan
Guest
Mike Raysfan

I was surprised to hear the Rockies offered Ruiz a contract knowing the Red Sox $20m rumor. Do I think they are looking at catchers? Sure seems like it and *rumors* are all over the place. Here is one of those *rumors* A.J. Pierzynski.

So who goes to 1st base? I’m struggling with the Rosario rumors but I guess anything is possible. Maybe bringing in Loney, as suggested by someone in another story, is not a bad idea?

ProgMatinee
Guest
ProgMatinee

Is catcher really a position that you can get the most bang for your buck? I don’t think so. If you’re convinced that Rosario can play either 1B or OF, why not stick with Torrealba and Pacheco as the Cs? Find a nice young prospect from either in the system or trade for one. Why is O’Dowd caught in this trap of overpaying for players that 1)are sort of mediocre and 2)aren’t ticket sellers? I mean, its ludicrous to give big money to Wigginton, Lopez and now Ruiz but then an actual investment in a guy like Matt Holliday you… Read more »

roxnsox
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roxnsox

Let’s get Mike Stanton AND Max Scherzer! Ahhh… ummm… just woke up from a lovely dream ๐Ÿ™‚ Yep, Prog, I’m also beyond exhausted with the bargain shopping for mediocre/past prime/questionable/no-name players. In the Rockies’ (DOD’s) defense: they did not decline to “invest” in Holliday. They offered him a zillion bucks. He wanted a zillion and a half. Or two. How much damn money do you freakin’ need for generations of your family? Has always chapped my hide with regard to athletes. Matt may have wanted out for different reasons, I don’t know. There are speculators that state he didn’t want… Read more »

JulieG
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JulieG

I would like to see Torrealba return and I think Pacheco benefits from playing and he is a decent catcher who will get better with work. I would like to see Rosario for a while in the outfield before I make a judgment on him. He has some speed, but is their enough to cover right or left at Coors? I think Wigginton at first is what is probably going to happen anyway. I sure would love to see Stanton here with Carlos in Center.

roxnsox
Guest
roxnsox

Heaven help us if Wigginton returns to play first ๐Ÿ˜‰

sdcarp
Guest
sdcarp

I have ESPN insider – and they’re reporting the Mets are shopping Ike Davis (this isn’t news) and list about a half-dozen teams interested, one being the Rox.

I have to say I find Davis mildly intriguing. He goes through extended periods where his BA is horrific, then gets hot. He has prodigious. He would be cheap. Definitely one of those guys that if he gets with the right batting coach – he might be OK.

Oh yeah – do we have a hitting coach??????

sdcarp
Guest
sdcarp

Meant to say prodigious “power.”

Anyway……I could see him thriving in the correct environment with some prudent platooning.

roxnsox
Guest
roxnsox

How’s his fielding? Do you know? (Man, it’s going to be hard missing our glove wizard over there….)

Mike Raysfan
Guest
Mike Raysfan

Tulo rumor put to bed by Geivett. “Senior vice president of major league operations Bill Geivett told Thomas Harding of MLB.com: โ€œHeโ€™s not going anywhere.โ€”

Mike Raysfan
Guest
Mike Raysfan

Brian Wilson cracks me up. I guess it doesn’t matter how well you can pitch with the Yanks. You just have to be able to make the cover of GQ. haha

Agbayani
Member
Agbayani

Carlos Ruiz: old catcher, coming off a season with a 25 game drug suspension … what could possibly go wrong, Ramon Hernandez II … Seriously, what is it with this club and the old catchers? I mean, if you want one to “handle the young pitching staff” by all means go find a Rod Barajas or Wil Nieves or Yorvit Torrealba. Maybe a long lost Molina brother. But as Prog says, why on earth would you prioritize that? Ike Davis/Michael Morse: a combined 500 lbs of lots of strikeouts, maybe 25 HRs, marble statue type defense at 1B. Yet the… Read more »

GARY
Guest
GARY

Ag,isn’t the old catcher chase literally the same story every single freak’n off season?I’ve forgotten some of the stupid “pickups”but I’m sure you can list at least 5 in the past 5-6 years all of whom last a year or less and add nothing to the team.STUPID,STUPID,STUPID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

roxnsox
Guest
roxnsox

LOL! Thanks Ag. Can’t wait to have Arvada West’s own Roy Halladay here in a couple years! :0 And you answered my question in a reply above about Ike Davis’s defense. Oh well.

Trip
Guest
Trip

Ag, we need to sign old catchers. Just so that the old pitcher(s) we sign will have someone to reminisce with. Don’t want these old pitchers to be lonely or they may not sign!

Agbayani
Member
Agbayani

A trip down Old Catcher memory lane with Dan O’Dowd (since Gary was nice enough to ask). I’ll skip the guys like Todd Greene who were brought in for their “hitting” — this is purely “veteran presence behind the plate” stuff. I’ll also skip the guys who weren’t over 30 when acquired (Torrealba the first time around) or were just short-term fill in for an injury signings (Geronimo Gil anyone?): 2002 Sandy Alomar Jr. 36 years old. Produced a 48 OPS + (100 is average) 2005 Danny Ardoin 30, 71 OPS+ 2006 Miguel Ojeda, 31, 62 OPS+ 2010 Miguel Olivo,… Read more »

GARY
Guest
GARY

Thanks Ag,”you da man!”And it was even worse than I remembered.We have two decent offensive catchers,albeit defensively challenged,so why waste money on that position when other needs are so obvious?

Cisco Kid
Guest
Cisco Kid

Scott Boras recently went on a rant about some teams not spending enough money. Targeted the Mets, Astros, and Cubs in his rant. He focused on the Cubs being more serious about upgrading Wrigley than acquiring good players. This is a quote from his rant:
“You’re developing the infrastructure, but fans don’t come to see seats, grass, cement. They come to see players,”

I guess Boras hasn’t been to Coors Field recently.

sdcarp
Guest
sdcarp

Last time Boras was at Coors (probably) was Cargo’s contract signing, and he was seething mad. I have fond memories of that press conference!

sdcarp
Guest
sdcarp

Ricky Nolasco’s agent is claiming he has multiple / multiple year offers. The Rox have flirted with Nolasco in past. I don’t see him being successful (even by Coors metrics) at Coors. Regarding the Ike Davis defense question……..it’s sort of like his hitting. Awesome in 2010 and early 2011. Bad in 2012 and 2013. The reason Davis mildly intrigues me is that he was the “valley fever” player in 2012. He claims, and it find it easy to believe, that the sickness impacted his entire 2012. That doesn’t explain 2013. But……I’d take a chance on him for the right (low)… Read more »

Agbayani
Member
Agbayani

sdcarp, I didn’t know Ike Davis had Valley Fever. I’ve known people who’ve had it (maybe TJ in Phoenix too?) — believe me, it can be a very serious long term illness so it would certainly explain Davis’s huge drop-off in the first half of last season. So you’re right: a good bounce-back candidate in the Rockies price range. Today Renck throws out some other names: Napoli and Loney. No way Napoli falls into our price range, but I’m glad to hear Loney’s name finally turn up. As I’ve said before, this one (price/1B defense/always hit at Coors) is just… Read more »

sdcarp
Guest
sdcarp

Loney is my #1 “realistic” choice – but I haven’t thrown it out since he’s sort of a no-brainer. That dude kills Coors, plays great defense, and just seems like a good guy in general. He’d probably relish the chance to be a pain in the Dodgers a** as well. Davis had Valley Fever in 2012……and has also had some general bad luck with odd injuries. He had a big collision with David Wright that knocked both of them out. He had an oblique issue last year. Sort of reminds of a poor man’s Carlos Beltran. Remember how Beltran was… Read more »

Mike Raysfan
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Mike Raysfan

Yet the Rays in their infinite wisdom are going to let Loney go.

rockymountainhigh
Admin
rockymountainhigh

If we really want to take a step forward, we have to be talking to the Cards: Allen Craig (rh bat and 1B), one or two power relief arm or a young starter like a Wacha, and a prospect or two for Tulo. If Cards are willing to part with them, we have to take that offer. That way we can pick up power right handed bat, a first baseman, and rebuild the farm system and pitching staff all in one trade. I’m the biggest Tulo fan and I would be very sad to see him go but I am… Read more »

GARY
Guest
GARY

Rutledge sucked at short when Tulo went down in 2011 and I don’t think DJLM is a shortstop by original position? BUT I would still be in favor of it if we could get the better end of it,but with DOD I can’t imagine that happening.

Agbayani
Member
Agbayani

Wild-eyed optimist’s How We Can Compete in 2014: A Summary. We won 74 games. Let’s do a quick back-of-the-envelope calculation for adding 13 wins. 87 didn’t do it last year, but in some years it might … or you’d be close. 1B: Helton was below replacement (O WAR) last year. Add Loney. We get lucky and he’s as good as he was last year. + 3 wins. SS/LF: Tulo and Cargo play at their 2013 levels, but both play about 150 games. + 3 wins. Jonathan Gray gets called up in June, pitches just like Gerrit Cole did for the… Read more »

sdcarp
Guest
sdcarp

Very nice analysis Benny! Each of those WAR improvements are reasonable, although all happening at once aren’t. I agree with the 87 number being a nice target. That being said, we need to probably shoot for something like 91 knowing that there will be some regression somewhere (as you astutely point out). I agree with your Dodgers and Reds thoughts, and would even throw the Pirates in the same boat (pardon the pun). The Nats however – are a different animal. I expect them to be back with a vengeance next year. So……..find 4 more wins! You might just get… Read more »

Miketober
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Miketober

“Tulo and Cargo … both play about 150 games”

LOL

Colorado Thistle
Guest
Colorado Thistle

The first baseman whose name came up today that could be a good find is Logan Morrison of the Marlins. People seem to think he’s at the nadir of his value, which is a good time to buy.

Mike Raysfan
Guest
Mike Raysfan

CT, the rumors about 1st base are insane. I am refusing to bite on the Rosario *rumor*. If the rumors are even half true I don’t believe the Rockies are looking outside of the organization for a 1st baseman.

Bob K.
Guest
Bob K.

Rockies sign 3 to minor league deals. Pedro Hernandez LHP, Nate Striz RHP, and Rafael Ynoa 2B.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/11/minor-moves-diaz-gonzalez-souza-layne-mccoy.html

Mike Raysfan
Guest
Mike Raysfan

Any comments on the latest offerings from the Renck? He does know how to use the word *could* in key places. What about the Fowler to the Mariners stuff?

Bob K.
Guest
Bob K.

The Rockies are bringing back LaTroy Hawkins as the closer for 2014.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/11/rockies-to-sign-latroy-hawkins.html

ProgMatinee
Guest
ProgMatinee

I’ll go on a limb and say nice signing. Not sure he should close all the time but I do like the idea of the lefty/righty option suggested in the article. Hawkins was one of the guys that should have been retained in 08 rather than over committing to Corpas. This may back fire, but the amount seems fair to me.

Mike Raysfan
Guest
Mike Raysfan

Prog, I agree with you about having the left/right option. Could be a big help. Arguably Hawkins had a better 2013 than he did when he was here in 07. He did a pretty good job finishing out the season as the closer. Here is the problem from my point of view. 41 years old? Was 2013 his last hurrah? Is it worth $2.5m to take a 1 year risk or would it have been better to use the $2.5m towards a solid middle reliever? I would prefer it go to a starter. Let’s not forget that Brothers has been… Read more »

EdtheUmp
Guest
EdtheUmp

N-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o !!!

Agbayani
Member
Agbayani

Prog, two ways of looking at this. (1) nice signing, Hawkins is old, but look at the component stats/velocity, etc. – he still seems like the same old LaTroy. (2) what’s wrong with us? We’re cheering on this club for signing a 41 year old reliever. And weren’t we promised that we’d be real players in the offseason? As for Ruiz: weird how the valuation of him went up. There’s a lot of stats work now about the value of framing pitches. Some catchers get more called strikes than others, and it makes a surprisingly big difference over the course… Read more »

EdtheUmp
Guest
EdtheUmp

I used to tell catchers that if I see you “pull” a pitch(however slight)that I was going to call it a ball since you must think it’s a ball or you wouldn’t move your glove back into the strike zone. Trying to “trick” me(or any other umpire)into hoping that I see something else had just occurred doesn’t fly. TV commentators(ex-players like Tim McCarver et al.)tell viewers that such-and-such really knows how to “frame” a pitch. Baloney! Catch the ball, hold it for a split-second and let me make a decision instead of trying to show the world that I(or any… Read more »

Agbayani
Member
Agbayani

Ed, I agree with you. This “framing pitches” thing has been sort of the flavor of the month on the stats side, but I’m skeptical. We all hear TV guys talking about how certain catchers are “quiet” behind the plate and therefore get more called strikes. I thought it was pretty much nonsense for your reasons–what experienced ump would be influenced? Then some stats geeks surprised us by saying there is something to it, but there’s a couple problems. First they compare called pitches to what one of the pitch tracker automated systems shows, but we don’t have great data… Read more »

Agbayani
Member
Agbayani

Should’ve said Jose Molina. For my Molinas mixed up again.

Mike Raysfan
Guest
Mike Raysfan

Ag, this was sort of was covered on MLBtv last night. They were comparing Ruiz, McCann, and Saltalamacchia. I guess when you factor in behind the plate, at the plate, age, etc. there are those that prefer Ruiz.

sdcarp
Guest
sdcarp

I’m 50/50 on the Hawkins signing. His age doesn’t really bother me, he was darn good last year. And it’s only a 1 year commitment, right?

What I don’t like is the concept of naming him Closer. Brothers was one of the few bright spots on the squad last year. Regardless of the whole left-handed play the match-up mentality so common with Managers not named Maddon, it just think you best guy, especially if he’s a K guy, should be Closer.

pooter
Guest
pooter

Totally Agree. Not Thrilled with this acquisition and I have no idea why they would name him closer. what did brothers do last year too not deserve to have that job to lose?

Bill
Guest
Bill

I’ve been more or less on the sidelines for the past few months. Work commitments, family matters etc. so am not sure what or what hasn’t been discussed. LaTroy Hawkins is an ok pitcher, always been a good clubhouse guy but I hope that’s not their only bullpen move. Anyway I’m more or less under-whelmed by most of the names being thrown out. I’m glad Ruiz is not coming here, still wish they would find a position for Rosario other than catcher. However the first baseman who makes the most sense is Loney. Good fielder, decent hitter and great hitter… Read more »

Bill
Guest
Bill

Meant gotta go.

jimboelrod
Guest
jimboelrod

Any thoughts on Corey Hart? Supposedly his agent has had talks with the Rox.

sdcarp
Guest
sdcarp

Hart could be a fit. In a world of athletes selling out for the highest contract, it’s sort of rare to see an athlete find a “fit.” Ironically, I think Josh Johnson did accomplish this yesterday by signing with the Padres. Hart could do the same with the Rox. The guy is still relatively young and could really benefit by signing a short term deal in an offensive ballpark!!!! Have a big season, then sign one last long term deal. He’s essentially this years offensive equivalent to Johnson. Of course, this is where the Rox typically fall short……logic! And to… Read more »

jimboelrod
Guest
jimboelrod

Seems like a no brainer to me IF his knees are passable…and that is a big if. Hart could probably give us 35-40 HR at altitude with maybe a .280 BA and play serviceable 1B.

jimboelrod
Guest
jimboelrod

Maybe a little optimistic with those numbers, but like sdcarp says it makes sense so it will not happen anyway.

GARY
Guest
GARY

Hated Hawkins in 2007 and still do.Believe he was the reason Corpus got his chance to star.Think LaTroy had a good first half and then nagging injuries made him cringe worthy for the stretch run.Think he was on DL or off active roster for the playoffs.Remember him as leaving the ball up for some big hits/HR’s in clutch situations and Hurtle totally losing confidence in him.May just be my old guy dementia kicking in,but that’s how I remember it.Maybe the Rockies are looking for subsidies as a old folks home.

Bob K.
Guest
Bob K.

Don’t have to worry about Escalona giving up runs next year as he has signed with the Orioles.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/11/orioles-sign-edgmer-escalona.html

Bob K.
Guest
Bob K.

Left-handers Jayson Aquino, Tyler Matzek and Kraig Sitton; right-hander Raul Fernandez; infielder Rosell Herrera and outfielders Kent Matthes and Kyle Parker have been added to the 40 man roster.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article/col/rockies-add-seven-to-40-man-roster-in-advance-of-rule-5-draft?ymd=20131120&content_id=64080378&vkey=news_col

sdcarp
Guest
sdcarp

Boy……..the Rangers and Tigers aren’t messing around! Honestly, like that deal for both teams.

ProgMatinee
Guest
ProgMatinee

I can see Dan O’Dowd right now scratching his head about why the Rangers wouldn’t want Profar, Cano, Kinsler all competing for the 1 2B job.

GARY
Guest
GARY

Great example of what real GM’s do to improve their teams.

Agbayani
Member
Agbayani

So I started off this offseason stating my Realist’s Wish List. It included basically 3 budget acquisitions: (1) a James Loney type to play 1B; (2) a Paul Maholm type as an additional starter; (3) a Mark Ellis type as a stopgap to play 2B if Rutledge can’t hack it, or if LeMahieu can’t provide a little more punch. And now I’m convinced. We’re gonna get none of the above. A similar pitcher to Maholm, Jason Vargas, just got 4 years/32 million from the Royals. Yes, the Royals are now a “big market” team compared to us. 8 million bucks… Read more »

trip
Guest
trip

Don’t forget the Party Deck. Lots of the new money is going to that. All the other teams are sure to be envious of that….

Agbayani
Member
Agbayani

trip, that’s right. Party Deck. Sell the Coors Field Experience, which has little or nothing to do with the actual game.

Mike Raysfan
Guest
Mike Raysfan

Loney coming here wouldn’t bother me too much as long as it’s the 2013 Loney. Will he be a bargain? If he was the Rays would most certainly resign him. I guess it would depend on what he will actually cost and would we see the 2013 Loney or 2012 Loney. Are you willing to go $2.5m-$3.5m for him and have the 2012 Loney show up? That is the exact question the Rays are battling with now. Are the Rockies looking outside for a Loney type 1st baseman? Not so sure. There are a couple of guys in Ag’s parade… Read more »

Agbayani
Member
Agbayani

Raysfan, that’s the thing with guys like Loney. Up and down, there’s always risk in signing them. But my thing with the recent Rockies is this: you gotta take a chance sometimes. The market for Loney (including the natural pursuer, the Rays) is discounted by the risk that he’ll put up 2012 numbers. And his 2013 numbers aren’t that great either. But we start off with a 74 win team. Let’s say they had signed Carlos Ruiz. Let’s say he really has a good year. Maybe you get 3 more wins. That’s not enough. Matt Belisle? Let’s say he rebounds,… Read more »

Mike Raysfan
Guest
Mike Raysfan

F.Y.I. everyone … “could Tulo be on the move” is an upcoming segment on MLBtv shortly. I’m sure it is just more speculative spew because of the Freese trade,

GARY
Guest
GARY

Some talk Adams might now be available.But we don’t give up Tulo without a starter[Garcia,Miller,Lynn] and a reliever[ pick one 100mph hurler].

Agbayani
Member
Agbayani

Mets sign Chris Young (the former D’backs outfielder, not the pitcher), 1 year 7 million. Sounds high, but that’s the going rate. Still 30 years old, would probably be a really good corner outfielder defensively as he ages out of playing CF. Always hit well at Coors — I remember him killing us in a bunch of games. Would have pushed Cuddyer to 1B, solving that problem and vastly improving defense. Worth a shot, right? Guess not.

sdcarp
Guest
sdcarp

Ironically – I played the MLB Trade Rumor top 50 FA Prediction Contest (Young was #50) and had him going to the Rox. My thought process was the same as yours – let him play a corner OF slot and Cuddyer to 1st.

So far……the only FA I have right is McCann to the Yanks.

Mike Raysfan
Guest
Mike Raysfan

let’s not forgot the letter from Mr. Monfort in which he says:

“Michael Cuddyer, the National League batting champion, will likely move to first base creating an opportunity to fill his position in the outfield with a big bat.”

5yrs and $85m … good for the Yankees. Way to spend that money.

Mike Raysfan
Guest
Mike Raysfan

Was the Renck serious? The Rockies were “very aggressive in angling for McCann”. How so? Aggressive by who’s definition? The Rockies or McCann’s? LOL

ProgMatinee
Guest
ProgMatinee

I believe it was a Saunders article I read the same thing. Either way, more flat out lies being funneled through the Post to Rockies fans via management.

Agbayani
Member
Agbayani

McCann: 5 years, 85 million. DP today reprints the Rockies talking points saying they made a “late push” for McCann, offering something close to the 6/63 they are said (who knows for sure?) to have offered Abreu. If I’m McCann, an average salary of 10.5 million per year isn’t really “close” to 17 million. It’s about 60 % more unless I’m failing at math. It’s only “close” if you think that once a player makes 10 million bucks a year why should he care about an extra 6 or 7 million. Rockies writers need to stop providing cover for ownership.

rockymountainhigh
Admin
rockymountainhigh

We can forget about partnering with the Cards to acquire the needed parts in exchange for Tulo. Johny Peralta signed with the Cards to play SS. Yeah, that guy who uses PED to pump up his body and stats. The Cards were one of my favorite organizations until they signed a roid player for enough money to wipe out his 50-game suspension loss of income.

Agbayani
Member
Agbayani

Peralta: getting old, had a rebound season in which he was also busted for PEDs. So the Cards must be thinking one of two things. (1) PEDs are irrelevant; Peralta just had some random variation in his performances; no need to worry about his true talent level without PEDs. Or (more troubling, but given the money they gave him more likely?) (2) Peralta will likely find a way to keep juicing and avoid detection so they’ll continue to get the benefit. And if he’s caught they won’t have to pay him for at least 100 games. But this is a… Read more »

sdcarp
Guest
sdcarp

Benny – given that he’s a proven juicer, the Cards may have an out in the contract altogether if he tests positive again. That makes your option #2 even more attractive.

sdcarp
Guest
sdcarp

Well Gents – a ray of light (however slim it may be) – our boy Renck is reporting there have been discussions between the Rox, Royals, and Halos that could net the Rox Mark Trumbo. I mentioned my man-crush on Trumbo in another pre “Hot Stove” thread. The gist is KC gets Fowler, the Halos a couple of solid relievers, and the Rox Trumbo. For those that don’t much about Trumbo – he can mash! BA won’t be great (typically 250 ish, I can see it being 260 with 81 games at Coors). But we’re talking 35 HR’s with the… Read more »

ProgMatinee
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ProgMatinee

That would be a steal to get Trumbo for only Fowler.

Bob K.
Guest
Bob K.

Rafael Ortega claimed off of waivers by the Texas Rangers and Tim Wheeler passed through waivers and outrighted to minor leagues.

Agbayani
Member
Agbayani

Happy Thanksgiving, guys! Still my favorite holiday. No shopping allowed in my household. Trumbo for Fowler, maybe with KC involved in a 3-way trade? Well, you may have seen the O’Dowd badmouthing of Fowler has begun, just like Chris Iannetta a few years ago. (And Ubaldo, and Chacin, and … I’m sure I’m forgetting a few) So I guess Fowler’s likely on his way out. So here’s how it would look: Trumbo: very poor defensive outfielder, pretty good defensive first baseman. Would keep Cuddy in the outfield (bad), would almost certainly hit at least 25 homers if healthy (good), very… Read more »

sdcarp
Guest
sdcarp

sabrchip had this comment in the other thread: “Iโ€™m with Bob. Defensive 1b is a must. Pikinโ€™ that throw is huge. So what do we get when we trade Fowler? There are a lot of OFers in the Rox barn that could be utilized in LF or RF with CarGo moving permanently to CF.” One of the rumored teams interested in Fowler has been the Royals. They have a deep bullpen, from which they could likely trade. Three names come to mind – Aaron Crow, Tim Collins, and Kelvim Herrera. All three are somewhat intriguing, but none seem like a… Read more »

ProgMatinee
Guest
ProgMatinee

According to Buster Olney the Rockies are now claiming they don’t have much to spend on free agents, contrary to what had been claimed by management themselves during the past 12 months with knowledge of Helton’s expiring contract.
The answer to this riddle, “we have money, but are choosing not to spend it.”

sabrchip
Guest
sabrchip

Could be a ploy in negotiating to see if anyone interested (who?) in coming to Coors Field would come for fewer dollars. There have been a few rare contracts that were smaller than what one would have thought just because a player wanted to be in a particular city.

Would Pedroia take less money to play in the NW where he’s from? Possibly.

For the Steve Boras clients, it’s almost always about the bucks.

Cisco Kid
Guest
Cisco Kid

Quote from Monfort today in a DP story:
“I think our plan is working”
That’s all we need to know.

Mike Raysfan
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Mike Raysfan

Rockies owner Dick Monfort provided Troy E. Renck of the Denver Post with a detailed line-by-line budget for his franchise. Monfort explains how revenue from the new national TV contract is absorbed by payments on the club’s MLB credit line, player raises, and projected revenue losses for not having home dates with the Yankees and Red Sox. Monfort estimates being able to reinvest only $4-5MM of the new TV money into the on-the-field product. HAHAHA … I am curious though. Does this mean Mr. Monfort is getting the Renck up to speed to be the next GM?

Agbayani
Member
Agbayani

Rox management has decided to use the holiday season (and Broncos playoff run season) to dash even the minimal expectations true fans (the only ones reading Rockies news in late November) may have for 2014. First, we had O’Dowd’s lengthy radio interview. Purplerow last week did a great job summarizing it. Now we have Renck’s “look inside the Rockies books” to explain their refusal to compete financially even with other “mid-market” teams. This offseason we’ve already seen teams like the Royals make big money moves. A few quick thoughts on what we’ve learned: 1. On Monfort: The plan is apparently… Read more »

sdcarp
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sdcarp

Nice!

Mike Raysfan
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Mike Raysfan

HEAR HEAR … excellent! Just as an f.y.i. from a Rays perspective. Moreland is alleged to be part of the 3 player deal for Price. If it ever really happens.

ProgMatinee
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ProgMatinee

All boils down to what I said in 2010. The Rockies screwed the pooch giving contracts to players that were already undercontract. Thus, dedicating more money to achieve a diminished product because you had to trade Jimenez to do it.

Tulowitzki saw this coming and went for the cash grab. He then proceeds to blame rookies and sophomores for the drop off in 2010 and 2011. At least he learned to shut his fat mount since then…or maybe its just full of all the cash he’s raking in while on the DL.

Agbayani
Member
Agbayani

Here’s the thing with Tulo and Cargo: just last summer I thought they were overpaid such that trading either one — particularly Tulo — and getting something of value back would be really tough. But when Peralta got $13 million + per year over 4 years from the Cards I knew I was wrong. That’s for his age 32-35 seasons. Assuming his PED thing didn’t improve his performance (yeah, a big assumption), he’s probably an 8 win player at best over those 4 years. So that’s almost 7 million bucks per win. Tulo will be 29 next year, and he’s… Read more »

ProgMatinee
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ProgMatinee

You really lose me with the constant WAR reference. Not sure it means anything. What team had a collectively higher WAR, the Angels or the Indians? Which one spent more? Which one went to the playoffs. Is there really any substantive correlation between WAR and actual team wins as a numerical value, or is it just useful as a scale to say 1 guy is better than the other?

Were the Rockies really only 4 games worse with Tulo out of the lineup, seems like it was more like 20.

sdcarp
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sdcarp

Mat Gamel – I’m calling it now.

Mike Raysfan
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Mike Raysfan

Really, you think so? I guess it is possible but I have to wonder why the Cubs decided to non tender after just claiming him. Do the Rockies need another jack of all trades (or positions)? I thought he was primarily a 3rd baseman? Guess I should look up his stats.

sdcarp
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sdcarp

I’m not saying it’s what I would do, or that’s it’s a smart move – I’m saying that what the Rox will do! ๐Ÿ™‚

Nathan to Tigers
Wilson to the Dodgers
Hanigan to the Rays (which negates my proposed 3-way trade with the Reds and Jays – because the Reds no longer have an extra Catcher).
Fister to the Nats (the Nats are my preseason pick to win the NL in 2014)
Kazmir and JJ to the A’s
A’s and Rangers talking another deal
Peralta signing with the Cards negates another one of our best trade matches.

It’s so discouraging.

Mike Raysfan
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Mike Raysfan

LOL – agreed

Agbayani
Member
Agbayani

On WAR: no, it’s not perfect. But it’s probably the best way we have of measuring the likely impact of a loss/acquisition of a player, which of course goes to how much that player should expect to be paid. And what we’ve seen over the last half dozen years or so is that the market for free agents has become very efficient with players commanding salaries in lockstep with their WAR projections. Tulo is now a “bargain” because of salary inflation. He makes 5 million per additional win he contributes, Peralta now closer to 7 million. The other big thing… Read more »

Agbayani
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Agbayani

Google “Justin Morneau fangraphs.” A guy named Paul Swyden just posted an analysis of what Morneau would (err, wouldn’t) do for the Rockies. For the record, I disagree a bit with his optimistic view of Dickerson. But the rest of it is spot-on, including his discussion of much better free agent targets in the same price range.

Bill
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Bill

Question. Did Montfort really open up the books to Renck? Or did he just give Renck the figures which Renck posted? If it’s the 2nd, which is what I believe, then they mean as much as “the check is in the mail”. It’s Monfort’s excuse for not trying to win.

And even if they are the “real” numbers Monfort is more interested in keeping within his self-imposed budget then in trying to win. Reading that article the other day got me fuming. What a horse’s ass he is.

sdcarp
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sdcarp

The sound you hear is me laughing!

Dex has been dealt…………to the ‘stros……..for (hold your breath)……Jordan Lyles.

Colorado Thistle
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Colorado Thistle

Jordan Lyles. Be careful what you wish for: this management team does not know pitching. I hope I’m wrong but we just traded a cost controlled good defensive outfielder for another pitching bust.

Bill
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Bill

You gotta be kidding me? This is from the DP website Lyles, 23, has pitched for the Astros in each of the last three seasons, combining to go 14-29 with a 5.35 ERA, 117 walks and 259 strikeouts in 72 games, 65 of which were starts. This past season the 6-foot-4, 215-pound right-hander spent the majority of the season with the Astros, going 7-9 with a 5.59 ERA, 49 walks and 93 strikeouts in 27 games, 25 starts. Barnes, 27, spent this past season with Houston. He hit .240 with 8 home runs, 41 RBI, 46 runs and 11 steals.… Read more »

ProgMatinee
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ProgMatinee

I had cooled off a lot on Fowler from 2012. But this does seem like an awful return. Seems almost as pointless as the Seth Smith for the 2 nobodies from Oakland.

sdcarp
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sdcarp

And the A’s just flipped Smith to the Pads for Luke Gregerson – who is a VERY solid setup man. So in the last 2 days, the A’s have added Kazmir, Jim Johnson, and Luke Gregerson.

Timo
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Timo

Ughhhhhhh…

Bill
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Bill

I remember the days in the 1970’s and 80’s when I waiting for big league ball to come to Denver. Looks like I’m waiting again.

sdcarp
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sdcarp

Well……………as bleak as our situation seems, I guess it could be worse. We could be the Mariners, who just gave 31 year old Robinson Cano a 10 year, 240 million contract. Crazy!

sdcarp
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sdcarp

So the Yanks lose Cano to the M’s for 240M, but sign Ellsbury and Beltran for 215M, and Beltran is “only” a 3 year deal. They also sign Kelly Johnson for 3M. Maybe Agbayani can do a WAR analysis, but my gut says I’ll take Ellsbury/Beltran/Johnson over Cano/Granderson and his various replacements and whomever else the Yanks run out in the OF. Seems like this allows them to move Soriano to DH. They also resign Kuroda, and presumably still have some “spare” $$$$ sitting around after missing Cano. And of course all this analysis leaves out Brian McCann…….because it seems… Read more »

sdcarp
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sdcarp

Persistent rumors that the A’s and Rox are talking about Brett Anderson. He’s an intriguing pitcher. Injury prone, so I wouldn’t give up too much, but would definitely take a flier if the price isn’t too high.

sdcarp
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sdcarp

Trying to figure out this rumored deal……one of the A’s few weaknesses is 2nd base. The A’s have also become sort of the “kings of platoon.” So maybe they see something in Rutledge or Lemehieu and ask for one of them in return? They had several guys manning 2nd last season (Sogard, Callespo, Weeks)….and have picked up Nick Punto. These aren’t great names……so maybe that’s their angle.

ProgMatinee
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ProgMatinee

So disappointing to read of all the significant moves other teams are making or trying to make, especially from the likes of Arizona or Oakland, etc while the Rockies are looking for middle relievers.

sdcarp
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sdcarp

Amen Brother!

t
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t

I think it’s extremely important to get more relief pitching. That was the worst part of our team last year. Arizona has been very aggressive in talks, but the only significant move I can think of them making is dealing Heath Bell to shed salary…

Aside from this and trading for a starting pitcher, the only other real acquisition that is realistic is a bench player.

sdcarp
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sdcarp

Add Mark Trumbo to the DBacks. I’ve stated in other posts on this site that I liked Trumbo for the Rox at 1B. I don’t like him as much as an OFer – especially if you give up Adam Eaton. I like that deal more for the Sox and Halo’s than for the DBacks.

t
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t

Trumbo is a good piece but he’s Mark Reynolds revisited. He’ll do well for them but the other teams win this deal in my opinion.

ProgMatinee
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ProgMatinee

The new line coming out of the Rockies’ propoganda machine (since the “we just came up a dollar short” has worn out) is that every player they want has some health issue precluding the trade from going down.

Rocky Mountain High
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Rocky Mountain High

Pass me some vodka if they acquire Brett Anderson’s large salary and history of injuries. That’s worse than Guthrie.

sdcarp
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sdcarp

Rox get Anderson for Pomeranz.

I know Pomeranz was supposed to be the s**t, but color me unimpressed to this point. Anderson has been solid when healthy. Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dum may have done OK on this one.

sdcarp
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sdcarp

Here’s a transcript of how the deal went down:

Last week – Tweedle Dee “Anderson for Pomeranz, hell yeah, Anderson is the same age as Pomeranz but has already pitched part of 5 years in MLB.” Billy Beane – “yep – but you take his 8M salary.” TD – “no way Billy……we’ll find a better deal.”

One week later, crawling back to BB with his tail between his legs – “Billy – we’ll pay his salary, lets do it.” Billy – “we need a 2nd player now.” TD – “OK”

Bob K.
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Bob K.
Bob in WV
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Bob in WV

I’m beginning to think that “Party Deck” is nothing more than a disguise for an oversized injury shelf.

ProgMatinee
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ProgMatinee

This one is risky, but pouty mouth Pomeranz sucks and I can see Anderson being a factor. If he succeeds either we have a good year or a very nice trade chip.

sdcarp
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sdcarp

I like it quite a bit from a pure talent standpoint……..and since I’m not paying the salaries, I don’t really care about that part!

Anderson is the same age as Pomeranz! He’s been solid as a starter and a reliever. A Chacin>DLR>Chatwood>Anderson>Nicasio rotation sets up about as nicely as we could have hoped.

I does sort of make you scratch your head even more about the Dexter Fowler deal – but with Chatwood and Anderson in the rotation, having Lyles in reserve is probably a prudent idea.

Bob in WV
Member
Bob in WV

Is the Pomeranz for Anderson trade actually done? I can’t verify it on mlb.com, ESPN, USA Today, etc. I see the article on the Rox website mentioning that Drew could be included in a deal, but nothing final.

Bob K.
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Bob in WV
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Bob in WV

OK, thanks. So we are now essentially at Jimenez for Lopez and Anderson, correct?

Bob K.
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Bob K.

That is correct except that McBride did re-sign as a minor league free agent and they also still have Joe Gardner. They were also included in the Jimenez trade. Unless Jimenez re-signs with Cleveland thay will now have no one left from the trade.

sdcarp
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sdcarp

FWIW – this is from Susan Slusser – the A’s version of Renck:

Susan Slusser โ€@susanslusser 3m
Scout calls return for Anderson “average,” says if Anderson stays healthy, #Rockies get better half of the deal.

Agbayani
Member
Agbayani

sdcarp is right: we actually acquired a still-young pitcher who has had real legitimate success at the major league level. Of course we also acquired a pitcher who’s only thrown 80 innings since June 2011. Still, he’s a reasonably good rebound candidate (he had TJ surgery in 2011, then some seemingly nonserious injuries – think how long it took De La Rosa to make it back), and he could actually be good, not just ok. But the larger question with the Rockies is always this: why? If you want to compete while DLR and Cuddyer are here (and while Tulo… Read more »

sdcarp
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sdcarp

This is spot on.

If you’re in full “now” mode – why not get a relief pitcher for Fowler?

There are more persistent rumors that the Rox are interested in Sean Marshall. I love Marshall. He’s another big health question mark guy (moreso than Anderson)……..but if healthy he’s a much better than average setup guy.

ProgMatinee
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ProgMatinee

Isn’t this classic Rockies though? I sound like a broken record, but this is the team that thought a rookie Jayson Nix was the answer at second base COMING OUT OF A WORLD SERIES.

Mike Raysfan
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Mike Raysfan

Good for Pomeranz. Maybe he will get back on track with a different club. At least one that doesn’t have a nack for not being the best at developing pitchers. I hope Anderson works out for the Rockies.

jimboelrod
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jimboelrod

Hopefully this trade will work out well for both teams. Pom just never seemed to get traction with the Rox.

Jaredean – Thanks very much for your work on the site and especially for setting up this Hot Stove thread…nice to read the opinions of others during the cold days of winter.

Go Rox!

sdcarp
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sdcarp

Rox select Tommy Kahnle from the Yanks in the Rule 5 draft. A young (24). hard throwing relief pitcher. I say “hard throwing” because his K per 9 rate so far through the minor is not too shappy (over 1). Looks like he spent all of last year at the AA level.